Pages in topic:   < [1 2]
What are the main problems of modern translation business/industry?
Thread poster: Semen Akhrameev
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Yes. So don't be at the low end. Jun 28, 2017

Chris S wrote:
Dan Lucas wrote:
I agree with Tomas and Georgie. I don't think the market is in as parlous a state as some forum members seem to believe.

Me too. But I imagine it depends on which end of the market you're at. Things may be rosy at the high end, but it's pretty clear from this site that the zombie apocalypse has already begun elsewhere...

I agree with you, but the low end of any market is an unpleasant place to be. If you cannot discover something that allows you to stand out, raise your perceived value and move into a higher value-added market, you will suffer.

This is not unique to translation. It's close to a universal constant in free-ish markets. At the low end, competition on price dominates all other factors. That seldom ends well.

Regards,
Dan


 
telefpro
telefpro
Local time: 22:48
Portuguese to English
+ ...
machine translation would be a challenge Jun 28, 2017

Machine or online translations could pose a big challenge to human translations.

 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:18
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
Money! Jun 29, 2017

Today I read a website from a translation agency with offices in Holland and the UK. They offer rates as low as 0.05 Euros p/w. How they can do this? Well, as they wrote: 'We are working with translators from low paying countries'.

You can't beat that. Add all those western translators on the beaches of Goa and Bali, and all caring mothers at home with their little ones who want to have 'something on hands' while husband dear makes enough money for the whole neighbourhood = we profe
... See more
Today I read a website from a translation agency with offices in Holland and the UK. They offer rates as low as 0.05 Euros p/w. How they can do this? Well, as they wrote: 'We are working with translators from low paying countries'.

You can't beat that. Add all those western translators on the beaches of Goa and Bali, and all caring mothers at home with their little ones who want to have 'something on hands' while husband dear makes enough money for the whole neighbourhood = we professionals are in problems and have to find another way to earn our money.

Most agencies nowadays simply don't care about quality, as long as the price is right (= low), hence MT.

The translation business is finally going to the drain.
Collapse


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Then don't deal with most agencies! Jun 29, 2017

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
Most agencies nowadays simply don't care about quality, as long as the price is right (= low), hence MT.

There are literally tens of thousands of agencies. The Blue Board lists more than 20,000 of them, and it is not exhaustive. Even if only the top 5% are worth dealing with, that is 1,000 agencies. And then you have hundreds of thousands of potential direct clients around the globe.

There is plenty of work out there, but you can't sell a quality service to a client who does not want to pay for quality.

Sure, we see lots of people trying to sell cheap translations. What of it? Markets are not monolithic, but segmented. Avoid the problem by not addressing the low-end of the market.

Look around you. There are many, many more bicycles in the world than there are luxury cars. Does that mean that there is no market for luxury cars? Do you really think luxury car salesmen look at the bicycles that go past the dealership and get depressed about this cheap and reliable form of two-wheeled transport?

Of course not. What it means is that a person with the budget for a bicycle is not going to buy a Mercedes-Benz E Class, so salesmen don't target them in the first place.

It does also mean however that when you sell an upscale service for more money you must ensure that it is of commensurately high quality, because the buyer will have higher expectations.

Regards,
Dan


 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:18
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
@Dan. Jun 29, 2017

The reality is that it is getting more difficult for us to find the right agencies.

You say: 'look around you'. I DO! There may be plenty of work out there, but finding a normal paid job is getting more and more difficult. I see it happening! Like I said before, I found an agency which is offering 0.05 Euro per word, because they are working with translators out of low paying countries (literally stated on their website!). Slavery!!!!

Nice example with your bycicles and
... See more
The reality is that it is getting more difficult for us to find the right agencies.

You say: 'look around you'. I DO! There may be plenty of work out there, but finding a normal paid job is getting more and more difficult. I see it happening! Like I said before, I found an agency which is offering 0.05 Euro per word, because they are working with translators out of low paying countries (literally stated on their website!). Slavery!!!!

Nice example with your bycicles and luxury cars, but as long more and more translation agencies are looking at their budget first and quality afterwards, we professional translators are in a downward spiral.

That is the reality I am living in!

[Edited at 2017-06-29 21:21 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-29 21:21 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-29 21:23 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-29 21:26 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-29 21:27 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-29 21:28 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-29 22:12 GMT]
Collapse


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
If it's not working, all you can do is try something different Jun 30, 2017

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
The reality is that it is getting more difficult for us to find the right agencies.

Well, I cannot prove or disprove this assertion. Given the base assumption that the translation market is growing steadily and that there are essentially zero barriers to entry for new agencies, it would not be surprising to see the number of agencies rising every year.

On the other hand, it seems likely that every year a small percentage of agencies try to move up-market, from the low end with its wafer-thin margins to the middle, or from the undifferentiated but competent middle to the more specialised high end. So it is possible that the number of good agencies is pretty stable as a percentage of total firms. And then you have the direct clients.

But, putting those numbers aside for now, it will seldom be easy to find the best customers. That takes effort, creativity and time - and not everybody manages to get it together. The freelancers who find the right clients will be comfortable. Freelancers who fail to develop a good mix of clients will struggle. If what you're doing is not working, you need to try something different.

It seems to me that many freelancers are far better at translation than they are at business or marketing. In a traditional company environment such concerns are of less importance, because the worker focuses on a single function or a small number of functions - the benefits of specialisation, right? The translators translate, and the marketing department markets.

In a freelance context, you MUST get the marketing and the business aspects right. I believe myself to be a good but not probably not outstanding translator. I work to improve my skills, so I get a little better every year. Importantly, I also do a decent job of selling myself and of performing the other business functions. Finally I am fairly specialised. Hence I am comfortable, although I try not to be complacent.

All of this would be meaningless if I were to try to market my services to the kind of agency that recruits translators from low-income countries. They do not want what I offer at the price I offer it. The clients of such agencies can afford a basic translation, probably by a non-native speaker with poor writing skills in the source language. That's it.

Why would skilled freelancers from developed countries who work into their own languages be trying to compete with such people? It's not a fight that can be won. Choose a different fight! No, it's not easy, but it's demonstrably possible.

Dan


 
Thayenga
Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:18
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Decreasing rates Jun 30, 2017

Especially agencies - not all of them, of course - try to keep reducing the translation rates in more than one way, e. g. CAT tool matches, long payment terms (free loan), fixed "budgets", etc.

I just saw a job post by an agency with an all 5-BB-rating. They've requested quotes, but readily mentioned that the "best rate" would be USD 0.03. What they didn't mention (I presume) is that the translator will bear all money transfer related costs, thus reducing the best (?) rate to USD 0
... See more
Especially agencies - not all of them, of course - try to keep reducing the translation rates in more than one way, e. g. CAT tool matches, long payment terms (free loan), fixed "budgets", etc.

I just saw a job post by an agency with an all 5-BB-rating. They've requested quotes, but readily mentioned that the "best rate" would be USD 0.03. What they didn't mention (I presume) is that the translator will bear all money transfer related costs, thus reducing the best (?) rate to USD 0.05 - 0.01. This would result in the translator having to work 27 hours (no typo) a day just to be able to pay the rent.
Collapse


 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:18
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
Agree Jun 30, 2017

Thayenga wrote:

Especially agencies - not all of them, of course - try to keep reducing the translation rates in more than one way, e. g. CAT tool matches, long payment terms (free loan), fixed "budgets", etc.

I just saw a job post by an agency with an all 5-BB-rating. They've requested quotes, but readily mentioned that the "best rate" would be USD 0.03. What they didn't mention (I presume) is that the translator will bear all money transfer related costs, thus reducing the best (?) rate to USD 0.05 - 0.01. This would result in the translator having to work 27 hours (no typo) a day just to be able to pay the rent.


My point exactly!


 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:18
Spanish to English
+ ...
As I see it Jul 3, 2017

I see things much as Robert Rietvelt and Thayenga. There is constant downward pressure on rates from big and small agencies. Price is generally the main concern. And often, the only way to earn decent money is to accept rush jobs (which create their own stresses and risks).

I agree with many of Dan Lucas' points. I would only say that some of these low-end agencies are not contracting non-native speakers for their projects. They appear to be finding at least reasonably qualified and
... See more
I see things much as Robert Rietvelt and Thayenga. There is constant downward pressure on rates from big and small agencies. Price is generally the main concern. And often, the only way to earn decent money is to accept rush jobs (which create their own stresses and risks).

I agree with many of Dan Lucas' points. I would only say that some of these low-end agencies are not contracting non-native speakers for their projects. They appear to be finding at least reasonably qualified and reasonably experienced native speakers of the source language to do jobs at rates that are not sustainable in the long-term for a professional translator who does not want to be reduced to a sweatshop drudge.

However, I generally agree with Dan that the answer lies in securing a critical mass of direct clients, and reducing one's dependency on agency work. I do in fact tend to see agencies per se as something of a problem, at least in my language pair. This is the theme of my response to a poll question some two weeks ago ("What do you see as the biggest threat to your business income?") and which I am reposting below.

*******
Machine translation, CAT tools, too many translators, debased quality standards: I see all of these as threats to anyone who would hope to earn a viable living as a freelance translator.

But most of all it is, as Jessica and others have said, the big agencies and not just because they often buy out their smaller competitors, but because they really set the standard for what is acceptable, and thus exercise pressure on smaller companies to adopt some of their own practices that so many of us find odious.

In this regard, I tend to think that agencies are the problem. Period. Not big agencies, not small agencies, but agencies. Period. Translators who rely solely on agency work to make a living are in trouble unless they are among the relatively lucky few who can confidently expect a regular flow of work involving reasonable deadlines and good rates, and/or work in combinations for which there is high demand and relatively scarce supply. Most others will likely often find themselves working for lower rates than they are comfortable with, doing work they don't especially like, accepting rush work that requires long nights and sacrificed weekends because those are the only jobs that pay decently, and dealing with intense anxiety over long periods of down time. The other alternative for agency-dependent translators is to accept very low rates to ensure their steady flow of work, thus effectively transforming themselves into the equivalent of sweatshop drudges required to meet a certain daily quota of piecework before they are allowed to stop and enjoy the rest of the few waking hours they might have at their disposal.

Not a pretty picture, I know. Certainly not a vision of the translation industry that this site and the manufacturers of the big CAT tools would officially endorse. But there it is.

And the situation doesn't look to get better any time soon.
Collapse


 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 14:18
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Why English alone? Jul 3, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

One of the main problems is.....

...translators who advertise their services as including translating into English when they are incapable of writing correct English even on their own websites.

I'm not thinking of anyone in particular.


Why do you restrict it to English?

I can only say it about BR Portuguese, but there are just too many people who advertise their translation services into their very own "native language" - whatever this is supposed to mean - while they are unable to translate properly! AMOF many of these are unable to WRITE properly in their supposedly "native" language.

The major problem is that translation clients are often unable to tell the difference, especially when the target language is foreign to them.


 
Mario Chavez (X)
Mario Chavez (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:18
English to Spanish
+ ...
A translation test is insufficient. That's why... Jul 3, 2017

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

One of the main problems is.....

...translators who advertise their services as including translating into English when they are incapable of writing correct English even on their own websites.

I'm not thinking of anyone in particular.


Why do you restrict it to English?

I can only say it about BR Portuguese, but there are just too many people who advertise their translation services into their very own "native language" - whatever this is supposed to mean - while they are unable to translate properly! AMOF many of these are unable to WRITE properly in their supposedly "native" language.

The major problem is that translation clients are often unable to tell the difference, especially when the target language is foreign to them.


...I would advocate for writing tests in the source and the target language. The client will be able to determine who's the right translator for her project. It would eliminate some of the blind spots.


 
Nina Esser
Nina Esser
Germany
Local time: 18:18
English to German
Disagree Jul 4, 2017

I strongly disagree that translators should be tested on their writing skills. While they certainly help, they're only part of the skillset needed. When I worked as PM at an English translation agency, we had a Polish-English translator who grew up bilingually, but only translated into English, having received all his education in English. The perfect prerequisites for becoming an outstanding translator, you'd think. He had also been a translator for several years (certainly for more than 10 yea... See more
I strongly disagree that translators should be tested on their writing skills. While they certainly help, they're only part of the skillset needed. When I worked as PM at an English translation agency, we had a Polish-English translator who grew up bilingually, but only translated into English, having received all his education in English. The perfect prerequisites for becoming an outstanding translator, you'd think. He had also been a translator for several years (certainly for more than 10 years). However, our revisers repeatedly complained about the quality of his work, and one reviser even questioned him being a native speaker once. When I forwarded the translator's opinion on the matter to this reviser, his reaction was: "What a pity his translations don't read anything like this text. He actually writes quite well!"

And so as not to sway too much off topic: I think the main problem is that most customers (at least those I've come across when working as PM at translation agencies) consider translation a necessary evil. Not sure though if that's a problem of the *modern* translation industry...
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2]


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

What are the main problems of modern translation business/industry?







CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

Buy now! »
Trados Studio 2022 Freelance
The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.

Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.

More info »