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Is this dishonest? (Company offers to pay commission to translators who refer work to them)
Thread poster: Tom in London
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 12:31
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
If I understood it correctly. Feb 22, 2017

I should send them offers into languages other than mine, and when exactly am I receiving such offers? How did they assume that?

 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Confused Feb 22, 2017

In what way is it "dishonest"?

 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:31
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Maybe it's the wrong word Feb 22, 2017

Chris S wrote:

In what way is it "dishonest"?


Maybe "unethical" would be a better word. If all agencies did this - imagine the chaos!


 
Lianne van de Ven
Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:31
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
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I know Feb 22, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Lianne van de Ven wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

More comments please. As soon as I have a good selection, I'll send the agency a link to this discussion.



If that's your intent, you should have mentioned that in the beginning of this thread (talking about dishonesty). Of course I know that these forums are public, but intentionally collecting responses without saying so, in order to confront 3rd parties brings this to a whole new level. Of course, knowing you for a while in these forums, I knew that your question was not as naive as it sounded, so I wondered why you were bothering to bring this up. Bored maybe?


Try not to personalise it please.


... I should not, Tom, but it really ticks me off. My excuses for the last comment, but please take the rest to heart as far as I am concerned.

[Edited at 2017-02-22 13:40 GMT]


 
Annamaria Amik
Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:31
Romanian to English
+ ...
Agency Feb 22, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Annamaria Amik wrote:

...surely we, translators, occasionally send similar messages to our clients?...


Never. Oh and BTW how do you know which agency this is?


I meant messages such as "I recently updated my website", "I recently acquired another qualification", etc. I personally don't send them, but other colleagues recommended this as a good pretext to get in touch with clients who have gone silent.

How do I know which agency this is? Well, I received the exact same e-mail from an agency in Ireland I've worked for, just a few minutes ago. Of course, there is a theoretical possibility that another Irish agency just happened to send you the exact same message, but that's not very likely

Not sure how they got your address, if you are very concerned, just ask them. Anyhow, if it is the same agency (name starting with an I), you should know that they are really decent with their translators.

Lingua 5B wrote:
I should send them offers into languages other than mine, and when exactly am I receiving such offers? How did they assume that?


This can happen mostly when you work for direct clients. A direct client of mine asked me a few times to recommend them translators who work in other language pairs. It was natural for them to first ask the translator they are already doing business with, they assume trusted translators know other trusted translators. If I had referred them to an agency like this (and not a colleague, like I did), it seems the agency would have paid me a small commission, right?
This can really happen when you work for direct clients who frequently need translations. You can't handle all the language pairs.

However, recommending an agency that can also handle YOUR language pair and thus offer the direct client a one-stop service is not necessarily a good idea...

[Edited at 2017-02-22 13:47 GMT]


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
- Feb 22, 2017

Optimistic is the word that springs to mind. Can't imagine many agreeing to this.

Tom in London wrote:

Maybe "unethical" would be a better word. If all agencies did this - imagine the chaos!


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:31
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Translators are experienced researchers Feb 22, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Annamaria Amik wrote:

...surely we, translators, occasionally send similar messages to our clients?...


Never. Oh and BTW how do you know which agency this is?

I know exactly who you're referring to Tom. Took me a couple of seconds of research, and Annamaria has confirmed the finding. So I hope you weren't depending on the company staying anonymous.


 
Yasutomo Kanazawa
Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 20:31
Member (2005)
English to Japanese
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@Tom in London Feb 22, 2017

Mair A-W (PhD) wrote:

Jenny Forbes wrote:

Sounds a bit fishy to me, Tom.
In any case, why would they offer work to translators in their database which is not in their language pairs? Surely their database should show them which language pairs their translators handle?


Jenny, I think they mean that if you, a translator, registered with XXXXX, are approached (independently of XXXXX) by client/agency YY for a translation which you are not, yourself, able to take on, when you tell YY that you can't do it, you could recommend XXXXX instead -- thus directing new business to XXXXX.



I received exactly the same message as you, Tom.

Mair A-W is right. If you receive a job offer in German-English, for example, and refer Mair A-W to this agency and if Mair A-W and the agency succeeds in entering a job contract, Tom, you will get some commissions from this agency. There's nothing dishonest or fishy about this business practice. I know a few other agencies who copied (?) the same method and sends me direct emails regarding this kind of offer.


[Edited at 2017-02-22 15:22 GMT]


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:31
French to English
pretty standard practice Feb 22, 2017

It's pretty standard practice in business at large. I know of agencies (not necessarily LSPs) who ask for commission when they send work to other people. Like you don't even have to pay Indian auto rickshaw drivers at all provided you first let him take you to a couple of hotels or shops where he'll get a backsheesh just for bringing potential customers their way.

I wouldn't take them up on it though. I prefer to pay the rickshaw driver straight away and get to my destination prom
... See more
It's pretty standard practice in business at large. I know of agencies (not necessarily LSPs) who ask for commission when they send work to other people. Like you don't even have to pay Indian auto rickshaw drivers at all provided you first let him take you to a couple of hotels or shops where he'll get a backsheesh just for bringing potential customers their way.

I wouldn't take them up on it though. I prefer to pay the rickshaw driver straight away and get to my destination promptly. As for translations I can't handle, I have the contact details of some top-notch translators who I used to send work to when I was a PM, and I prefer to send them any work I can't do myself. I know they'll do a good job, I trust them not to steal the client, and there's a good chance they'll do the same for me one day.

While I don't use my real name here, if I had and then saw that somebody sent links to this or any other Proz thread to an agency being discussed, I'd be pretty upset. Of course someone at the agency could happen upon the thread by themselves, but I doubt that many agencies spend much time reading translator rants.
Collapse


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:31
French to English
I get plenty! Feb 22, 2017

Lingua 5B wrote:

I should send them offers into languages other than mine, and when exactly am I receiving such offers? How did they assume that?


I get plenty. Mostly from direct clients who'll ask whether I happen to speak Spanish as well as French, or whether I could translate in the other direction. It makes sense to see whether I can do it first in that they are satisfied with my work and the resulting prose would be in the same style and use the same terminology.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Tom (and @Michael) Feb 22, 2017

Tom in London wrote:
As soon as I have a good selection, I'll send the agency a link to this discussion.


I'm sure Michael is already aware of it (-:

I have no problem with this type of thing. After all, if I get an offer from a client which I can't accept (truly unavailable, wrong field, wrong rate, etc), I refer the client to a colleague, for free.

However, often my colleague is also unavailable, so although I seem helpful to the client, I'm not really helping him. Now, if I'm fairly confident about an agency's work, I might as well refer that client to the agency.

Michael's agency offers to pay 20% of his profits as a referral fee on the first job for that client. So if he invoices the client $1000, and pays the translator and editor $750, then his profit is $250, and he'll pay the referrer 20% of that (i.e. $50).

Do you think this is a fair amount for a referral?


 
Mair A-W (PhD)
Mair A-W (PhD)
Germany
Local time: 12:31
German to English
+ ...
who's unethical? Feb 22, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Chris S wrote:

In what way is it "dishonest"?


Maybe "unethical" would be a better word. If all agencies did this - imagine the chaos!


I'm not convinced that this is directly unethical behaviour. If you were to refer a client to the agency in order to get the referral fee, without actually believing the agency to be a good choice for the client, then you would be behaving unethically. So perhaps the agency is encouraging unethical behaviour. But that's not quite the same.

I don't think it's underhand, either, it seems quite explicit to me.

(Is it so very different from the guy who came knocking on my door the other day to try and persuade me to switch electricity supplier? Presumably he was also hoping for a referral fee for every customer he successfully switched.)


 
Ricki Farn
Ricki Farn
Germany
Local time: 12:31
English to German
It's normal in other industries Feb 22, 2017

If you ask your plumber to suggest a good electrician, or your realtor introduces you to this really nice civil engineer, there will most definitely be a "commission". It's just us innocent academics who have never heard of this.

I'm not say it's good or bad, I'm just saying it's standard practice in some industries, and you don't begin to imagine the proportions of this until you see it in person.


 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 12:31
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Hum, yes but... Feb 22, 2017

I am supposed to recommend this agency, that I know nothing about (crucial!) to my direct client, while I may assume this agency uses cheap freelancers who provide poor quality work? Shall I still recommend them to my direct client? This is very tricky.

 
Annamaria Amik
Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:31
Romanian to English
+ ...
Not unethical Feb 22, 2017

Lingua 5B wrote:

I am supposed to recommend this agency, that I know nothing about (crucial!) to my direct client, while I may assume this agency uses cheap freelancers who provide poor quality work? Shall I still recommend them to my direct client? This is very tricky.



Once you have worked with them, you will know they are not unethical at all. This is one of those agencies every translator dreams about. Perfectly supportive in the entire translation process, good rates, very reasonable deadlines, responsive to inquiries, and they pay literally within seconds after delivery, voluntarily adding an extra amount to cover any Paypal fees.
I am sure it is not accidental that they have a perfect 5-star rating from 302 translators on the Blue Board.

It is not necessarily a direct client you have to refer. For example, if you receive a misdirected inquiry from someone you never worked for, why not answer "I can't handle this, but you could try Agency X, they have a broader vendor pool and might be able to help you"?

There is a risk in every referral, anyway - even colleagues you trust might have bad days and make a rare mistake in a translation for which you recommended him, right?

The source of the problem here was that Tom had no contact with them previously, so it's natural he's concerned about how they got his e-mail address. I'm sure no one would be upset if they got an e-mail like this from one of their old agency clients.


 
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Is this dishonest? (Company offers to pay commission to translators who refer work to them)







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