Pages in topic:   < [1 2]
Certified translation - do you translate money?
Thread poster: cloudhunter (X)
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I agree with Vanda Feb 18, 2017

Vanda Nissen wrote:

The currency should be left as is. You are not a financial consultant - as a sworn translator you need to translate what is says in the original document.


I agree with Vanda. Your task as a translator is to translate *exactly* what's in the source document, even if you think it may contain mistakes or inexactitudes - particularly if the translation is to be sworn as "correct". It won't be a correct translation if you change anything.

The document itself may be incorrect, but your translation will be a correct *transation*, including of whatever's incorrect in the document. You're not swearing that the document is correct. You're swearing that the translation is correct.

If, before you've sworn that your translation is correct, any third party makes changes to it, and then asks you to swear that it is correct, tell THEM to swear that it is correct.

[Edited at 2017-02-18 09:27 GMT]


 
RobinB
RobinB  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:20
German to English
Confusion between two meanings of "translation" Feb 18, 2017

Bryan Crumpler wrote: Not to rain on anyone's parade, but the advice that has previously been given is inexpert and wrecklessly false.


You appear to be confusing the two entirely separate meanings of "translation". What we do as (language) translators, is to transpose text (and meaning) from one language into another. The only thing we do with figures is to modify them to comply with the separator conventions in the target language, e.g. when translating into English, thousands commas and decimal points. In terms of currency amounts, this may also apply to the convention on where to place the currency symbol or ISO code, e.g. 2,000 € -> €2,000.

The other meaning of "translation" is "conversion", and this is the accounting meaning. That's why accounting systems (IFRSs, U.S. GAAP, other national GAAPs) have specific rules on how to handle foreign currency amounts resulting from flow amounts like transactions and stock amounts like the balance sheet data of foreign subsidiaries that prepare their financial statements in a foreign currency. That it's conventionally called "translation" in English may be confusing, but it's basically just "conversion". What complicates matters further is that tax authorities tend to have different rules for translating foreign currency amounts.

Absent any specific instructions from the client (which would necessarily have to be known to the reviser), translators would never consider converting foreign currency amounts into another currency. And even if I were asked to do that (which has never happened once in over 25 years of translating accounting and tax - I think I'm pretty proficient in these fields), I would advise the client to have this done by a certified auditor or CPA/CA. Apart from anything else, the liability issues are unclear and potentially crippling. Translators should stick to translating words. Leave the translation of foreign currencies to accounting and tax professionals.

Finally, the word is "reckless".


 
cloudhunter (X)
cloudhunter (X)  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:20
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Fair point Feb 18, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

If, before you've sworn that your translation is correct, any third party makes changes to it, and then asks you to swear that it is correct, tell THEM to swear that it is correct.

[Edited at 2017-02-18 09:27 GMT]


Thank you, Tom, thank all of you for all the contributions!

The thing was - the end client translated the documents herself and she did all the job of converting these numbers from EUR to USD, which must have been pretty frustrating (these were MANY numbers). On one of them she wrote: [conversion rates: 31.12.2016]. I have tried asking the PM (client --> one of my favourite agencies -->me), what the documents should be used for and this is not very clear. What we know is, the client needs to show these bank documents in the US to someone. German bank documents, the account currency is EUR.

Like I already wrote - I decided to change all the numbers and amounts to EUR, so that they look definitely like the amounts and numbers in the original text. Like Tom (and many of you) said - I am a translator and I certify that the translation is correct, I cannot swear that the conversion is correct. I must admit I would be afraid of the consequences. Plus, I see no point.

This is also what I wrote to the PM and she admitted not to have known about it.


 
Bryan Crumpler
Bryan Crumpler  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
Re: the client needs to show these bank documents in the US Feb 23, 2017

cloudhunter wrote:

What we know is, the client needs to show these bank documents in the US to someone. German bank documents, the account currency is EUR.



As the only person in this thread giving you advice from a US perspective, I am telling you what has been a common practice here and what has been asked of me in my professional experience.

If documents are not expressed in US dollars for some receiving organizations (such as landlords, who may need these amounts in USD as proof of income in order to consider you for approval of a lease application), then the document could be rejected, regardless of how accurate or correct the text translation is and who or where it was done. Language translators with the skill to do currency translation can increase their market value, especially given that there is no stipulation as to what the "limitations" of your services are allegedly supposed to be or the process in which you are to go about it. For example, Robin's remark is like telling me I'm supposed to leave DTP up to a graphic designer, just because my title is translator. However, if I have the skill to offer this service, why should I maintain some archaic view of what a translator is allegedly supposed to do and fall into a dinosaur trap in the process? I know for a fact, based on tax guidance here, that receiving organizations like the IRS will reject documents submitted outside of our functional currency (USD).

That goes to the heart of my previous response, where I stated there may be specific business/accounting reasons as to why the currency requires translation (i.e. conversion, for those who may not have the wherewithal to understand semantics).

Further to that point, certified translation for the United States is not the same as it is for the EU, and we are not obligated to any standard set of protocols or obligations for the translation process itself. Those requirements are set by the receiving organization and guided, in part, by "best practices" published by the main professional association here, the ATA. From a legal perspective, translators here (regardless of credentials) are only required to provide a notarized Affidavit of Translation (which requires a personal appearance before a notary public for the reading of the affidavit and probative forms of identification). The notary's signature, seal, and term of validity must then be verified by the State Department (or one of its authorized proxies). If the document is for use inside the United States, you will receive a Domestic Certification of Notary which only certifies that you appeared before the notary and swore to the statement in the affidavit. If it's for use outside the United States, you will receive an Apostille (for a destination country signed to the Hague Convention) or a Gold Seal Certificate (for non-Hague Convention countries). These are long-winded certificates that are permanently bound (not stapled) to the affidavit and the translation and layered in a way such that the stamp crosses both the domestic certification / apostille as well as the affidavit. Your personal CT seal - doesn't matter. Your government approved seal in Country XYZ - doesn't matter. The only thing that's going to matter is the apostille that gets slapped onto your translation and gets sent here. And, sure enough, the translation is at risk of being rejected.

With that being said, if you do not have the accounting skills to certify the translation (i.e. conversion) of the currency as part of your service offering (either by doing/verifying the conversions yourself or, if required by the receiving authority, hiring a CPA or auditor or consulting firm to certify the numbers on your behalf – at an additional fee, of course), then the proper method of going about the certification - for the US - is to include clarification or a disclaimer in your translator affidavit. There are standard affidavits provided by the State Department and then there are those that you can craft on your own, as long as the language required for the notarization section remains the same. It is the translator affidavit where you explain what exactly you are certifying (as the language translator) and the level of liability you are assuming as regards the accuracy or quality of what was translated (e.g. "to the best of your knowledge"). If you don't want to cop for the numbers, you simply state that the translation does not certify the accuracy of the currency conversions. Period.

I don't know what you folks do in the EU, but this is the process in the US and is what is expected for many documents received here. Sometimes, organizations here won't even accept documents certified outside of the United States anyway, just like some organizations don't accept documents in the EU that have been certified in the US due to the difference in certification procedures. The Hague Convention was supposed to change all of that, but - like I said - it's up to the receiving organization.

For the "not my job" folks, there is a wonderful article on The Muse confronting this issue - which is relevant for today's global market: https://goo.gl/fTR6NF

Perhaps heeding that advice, instead of eurosplaining, may be enlightening. Who knows, it might even lead to some upward mobility for you, or at least help you boost your market value in this business the way that it has for me.

TL;DR: yes, I translate "money".

[Edited at 2017-02-23 10:00 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
None of that matters Feb 23, 2017

Bryan Crumpler wrote:

what he wrote


None of that matters. The task of the translator is to translate exactly what the source document says. Adding nothing and taking nothing away and CERTAINLY NOT converting currency values into another currency (using God only knows what exchange rate). By the same token you'd be translating kilometers into miles, etc.

[Edited at 2017-02-23 15:13 GMT]


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Hmm Feb 23, 2017

Bryan Crumpler wrote:

Something mostly constructive this time


An interesting perspective, and I know first-hand that the US legal system can be pretty, er, special.

The UK is actually the same as the US in that you cannot "certify" translations. You can just promise that you've done your best. And I suppose you could add a caveat to that promise.

The OP, however, is in Germany with an actual certification system for translations. But this extends only to the accuracy of the translation, not any currency conversion.

So the advice of everyone else here to steer well clear is sound in this case and should not be dismissed.


 
Bryan Crumpler
Bryan Crumpler  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
The task of a translator Feb 24, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Bryan Crumpler wrote:

what he wrote


None of that matters. The task of the translator is to translate exactly what the source document says. Adding nothing and taking nothing away and CERTAINLY NOT converting currency values into another currency (using God only knows what exchange rate). By the same token you'd be translating kilometers into miles, etc.

[Edited at 2017-02-23 15:13 GMT]


How you choose to operate your business is your business, Tom. However, I am curious as to the sources of your information. Having done this type of work for some of the largest, most influential multi-channel banks, tax auditing firms and insurance firms operating in my language pairs, I am fairly confident in my understanding of what is required for documents submitted to authorities in the US and what these companies mean when they ask for "translations" involving "money", especially bank statements, financial records, or otherwise. OP clearly stated he/she had never done this before and didn't know what to do as regards the certification of the document. Your opinions are purely from a "language" translator perspective and do not lend credence to what it means to "translate money".

As I said previously, if one has neither the tools nor experience to include currency translation as part of his/her service offering as a language translator in the Business/Financial sector, then there are options at your disposal as to how to treat the certification of the document through the inclusion of a properly notarized translator affidavit (verified through the US State Dept. here), in which you disclaim the accuracy of the currency conversion, or where you have a CPA (certified public accountant) do that legwork for you and bind it or incorporate it with the "language" translation.


Some literature FYI:

Exhibit A - the IRS (Internal Revenue Service):


"You must express the amounts you report on your U.S. tax return in U.S. dollars. If you receive all or part of your income or pay some or all of your expenses in foreign currency, you must translate the foreign currency into U.S. dollars. How you do this depends on your functional currency. Your functional currency generally is the U.S. dollar unless you are required to use the currency of a foreign country."


Source: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-currency-and-currency-exchange-rates

Exhibit B - Price Waterhouse Cooper:


The basic foreign exchange guidance, now codified in ASC 830, was first issued back in 1981 as FAS 52. It provides a model for reporting when an entity conducts transactions in more than one currency. The entity prepares financial statements in a single currency, which requires that changes in the relationship between different units of currency be recognized and measured. ASC 830 uses two processes to express all of a reporting entity’s transactions in a single reporting currency: foreign currency measurement and foreign currency translation.

...

Foreign currency translation is the process of expressing a foreign entity’s functional currency financial statements in the reporting currency. Translation adjustments are included in the cumulative translation adjustment (CTA) account, which is a component of other comprehensive income."



Source: http://www.pwc.com/us/en/cfodirect/issues/foreign-currency.html
Guidance document: https://www.pwc.com/us/en/cfodirect/assets/pdf/accounting-guides/pwc-guide-foreign-currency-2014.pdf

ASC 830-30 guidance:

830-30 Translation of Financial Statements
U.S. GAAP Codification of Accounting Standards

Codification Topic 830-30
Translation of Financial Statements

Foreign Currency Translation
SFAS 52, December 1981
"Foreign Currency Translation"

Translation of foreign currency financial statements
1. All items of financial statements are translated
--> from functional currency to reporting entity
--> using a current exchange rate

2. For assets and liabilities
--> current exchange rate at the balance sheet date

3. For revenue and expenses
--> current exchange rate at the time of recognition
--> or average rate during the period if appropriate

4. For stockholders' equity
--> historical exchange rate at the time of transaction

Translation adjustments
1. Translation adjustments incur
--> when financial statements are translated
--> from functional currency to reporting currency

2. Translation adjustments are
--> reported in other comprehensive income



What are your sources?


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
? Feb 24, 2017

Bryan Crumpler wrote:

What are your sources?


My sources for what?


 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:20
German to English
Please tell us how things turn out, if you ever find out. Feb 24, 2017

cloudhunter wrote:

I have tried asking the PM (client --> one of my favourite agencies -->me), what the documents should be used for and this is not very clear. What we know is, the client needs to show these bank documents in the US to someone. German bank documents, the account currency is EUR.


If you end up with a PM who is clearly not up to the challenge of a complex project, you really need to be more forceful. As translators, our job is to take something written in one language and then change it so that our client can do whatever it is that they need to do with it. Usually that means nothing more than translating it in the obvious sense, but sometimes it involves something else.

There pretty clearly seems to have been a communication breakdown in this case and it is a PM's job to clear that up and ask the client why she has converted the currencies and what exactly she wants to do with the translation and why exactly she thinks she needs a stamp from a translator certified in Germany. If a PM fails to do all of this and you recognize that there is a problem, you need to make sure the PM goes back to the client and clears up the issues, so that you can do your work properly (or inform the PM that you're not actually the right person for this job).

Whenever a client does something that seems to make no sense, our first assumption always needs to be that we are missing something. Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

And as much as I hate to agree with someone who repeatedly uses the word "folks" and even threw in a "eurosplaining", I would guess that Bryan's response turns out to be the most relevant here.

PS: I think Americans now prefer to be referred to as "exceptional" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism) instead of "special".


 
cloudhunter (X)
cloudhunter (X)  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:20
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The outcome Feb 24, 2017

Michael Wetzel wrote:

cloudhunter wrote:

I have tried asking the PM (client --> one of my favourite agencies -->me), what the documents should be used for and this is not very clear. What we know is, the client needs to show these bank documents in the US to someone. German bank documents, the account currency is EUR.


PS: I think Americans now prefer to be referred to as "exceptional" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism) instead of "special".


The client kept on telling us, they need to show these statements "to someone" in the US and I failed to find out to whom. So I changed all the amounts back to EUR. End of story. I certified the translation itself. I printed it all out and sent directly to the client (as instructed). Then they wanted to have scans of the documents, too, because they are actually enough. So I guess it won't be a very important institution, which needs the papers.

To explain my doubts to our American colleagues - if you get certified where I come from, you have to have a master's and pass a very difficult set of tests. Once done, you get your stamp and your place on the official list of the ministry. And then you are allowed und supposed to translate only what is on the original document, leaving numbers as they are. If you translate a scan, you write it on your translation with the remark you never saw the original. There is no way you are allowed to change anything.

[Edited at 2017-02-24 11:29 GMT]


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2]


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Certified translation - do you translate money?







Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

Buy now! »