أنجليزي: at end of the doorبولندي translation: gdzie wierzeje wyznaczały krańce domostwa  KudoZ The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators ... More  |
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| بند في مسرد المصطلحات مأخوذ من السؤال أدناه | | أنجليزي مصطلح أو جملة: | at the end of the door | | بولندي ترجمة: | gdzie wierzeje wyznaczały krańce domostwa | | تم إدخاله من قبل: | Caryl Swift |
| الخيارات:
- المساهمة في هذا البند |
ترجمة أنجليزي إلى بولندي [للمحترفين]
Art/Literary - الدين / Medieval sources | | أنجليزي مصطلح أو جملة: at end of the door | Zdanie: Cumalach was a name for women till Adamnan come to free them. And this was the cumalach, a woman for whom a hole was dug at the end of the door so that it came over her nakedness.
Cumalach to po staroiryjsku niewolnica. Jak mozna przetlumaczyc ten "koniec drzwi"? |
| | ملاحظة(ات) إلى/من السائلMariusz Kuklinski: 01:57 Jan 14, 2007: A który koniec?
Malgorzata Kazmierczak: 02:18 Jan 14, 2007: Wiem tyle, ile jest w tekście...
Mariusz Kuklinski: 02:28 Jan 14, 2007: W rogu drzwi ???
Mariusz Kuklinski: 11:06 Jan 14, 2007: Naked, in Irish climate... I wonder whether they grew any natural fur?
Caryl Swift: 11:37 Jan 14, 2007: Given that they were first stuck in an earth-pit beside a fire hot enough to roast meat, for as long as it took to roast a side of 'animal of the day',after which they had to do duty as a candlestick until all the housework was done (the blessing being,
Caryl Swift: 11:39 Jan 14, 2007: I suppose, that at least they didn't have to do it) - perhaps they didn't really feel the cold . . .
SzIwonka: 14:59 Jan 14, 2007: I would change the register a little bit in this context. "tam, gdzie wierzeje wyznaczały krańce/kraniec/granice domostwa." I feel it suits better in this gloomy context. Will not make a comment on their life, oh, no. It would a nasty one. :-)
Caryl Swift: 15:09 Jan 14, 2007: As regards their quality of life, have a look at Paragraph/Verse 3 here:
http://tinyurl.com/yfzh8p
Quite a penalty for serving an underdone roast, I'd say...
Malgorzata Kazmierczak: 15:29 Jan 14, 2007: And what am I supposed to do now? Who's going to get the credit?
Mariusz Kuklinski: 17:32 Jan 14, 2007: Caryl because she made us to see the light
Mariusz Kuklinski: 17:33 Jan 14, 2007: I love wierzeje
Mariusz Kuklinski: 17:37 Jan 14, 2007: Flogging her into battle... hm. But para 8 is much more optimistic
Caryl Swift: 20:01 Jan 14, 2007: Not just flogging her into battle but what might happen to her once she was there. I do hope and pray that this isn't the etymology of the phrase 'trophy wife'?
SzIwonka: 20:19 Jan 14, 2007: To Malgosia: Caryl, of course.
To Caryl and Mariusz: Thanks God I did not live in those times. And that piece on tropies made me shiver for quite some time.
SzIwonka: 20:28 Jan 14, 2007: Trophies. Caryl you are absolutely right I love questions that stimulate discussion and collaboration. But you opened our eyes and afterwards it was just a piece of cake. The meaning was discovered by you, and do accept it. Thank you for the links. :-)
Caryl Swift: 21:39 Jan 14, 2007: To SzIwonka: Thank you :-) Here's another quite fascinating (IMO) link-relates to another of Małgosia's questions. http://tinyurl.com/yn52to As for the trophies,I made the mistake of reading the text rather late last night when the wind was howling
Caryl Swift: 21:40 Jan 14, 2007: outside. They gave me the most terrible dreams . . .
SzIwonka: 16:00 Jan 19, 2007: Great! Many kudos to Caryl! Your assistance and contribution to the final version were superb. :)
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| | please see the suggestion below | شرح:
"2. Cumalach [1] was a name for women till Adamnan come to free them. And this was the cumalach, a woman for whom a hole was dug at the end of the door so that it came over her nakedness. The end of the great spit was placed upon her till the cooking of the portion was ended. After she had come out of that earth-pit she had to dip a candle four man's hands in length in a plate of butter or lard; that candle to be on her palm until division of food and distribution of liquor and making of beds, in the houses of kings and cheiftains, had ended. That women had no share in bag or in basket, nor in the company of the house-master; but she dwelt in a hut outside the enclosure, lest bane from sea or land should come to her chief."
Notes:
1. A derivative of cumal, 'a female slave, bondmaid'.
http://tinyurl.com/yfzh8p
"This document gives an indication of what life for women was like in the seventh century, Cumalach (that is little slave) was a name for women till Adomnan come to free them it says......"
http://tinyurl.com/ydfgrc
"... the door is the boundary between the foreign and domestic
worlds in the case of an ordinary dwelling, between the profane
and sacred worlds in the case of a temple. Therefore to cross
the threshold is to unite oneself with a new world." - quoting
Arnold van Gennep via Kim McCone in Pagan Past and Christian
Present in Early Irish Literature.'
http://tinyurl.com/urp5t
So, this is what I wonder. If I've understood the situation correctly, one of the purposes that a woman served was as a support for the spit on which meat was roasted. In order to carry out the task she stood, or knelt (or sat - although it hardly seems likely that there would have been that much consideration for her comfort) in a hole. She was naked and I think it was the hole which was deep enough to cover her nakedness (as well as placing her at the appropriate spit-resting level). The hole was dug at the end of the door's swing, or travel - in other words, beyond the furthest point that the door reached.
One reason for my wondering if this is what is meant is that later in that paragraph, we learn that women lived outside the enclosure of the house in case her presence inside brought bad luck upon the master. So possibly, this bad luck might extend to her presence whilst on spit-supporting duty.
The other reason is that the text I found about the significance of the door suggests very clearly that beyond the door is beyond the dwelling - thus once again keeping her and her bad luck firmly outside of the cosy domestic scene.
So I wonder if the way to translate the phrase would be something along the lines of 'beyond the dwelling' - in whatever style and register you're using for the whole text. And that's something I wouldn't dare to suggest in Polish. but I hope this will have helped. :-)
(Looking at the way they treated women before the arrival of Saint Adomnan, I do wonder how the species managed to survive . . . )
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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-01-14 03:11:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I suggested something along the lines of 'beyond the dwelling'. However, perhaps closer to the original would be something like:
'at the point where the door marked the ende of the dwelling' ?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-01-14 03:12:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
'end' of course - without the very Olde English 'e' - sorry about the typo |
| استجابة مختارة من:
 Caryl Swift
بولندا
| ملاحظة من السائل إلى المجيبThanks a lot!!!!!!!
4 نقطة كودوز تم منحها لهذه الإجابة |
|
3 ساعات درجة الثقة:   موافقة الزملاء الصافي: +3 |
| please see the suggestion below
شرح:
"2. Cumalach [1] was a name for women till Adamnan come to free them. And this was the cumalach, a woman for whom a hole was dug at the end of the door so that it came over her nakedness. The end of the great spit was placed upon her till the cooking of the portion was ended. After she had come out of that earth-pit she had to dip a candle four man's hands in length in a plate of butter or lard; that candle to be on her palm until division of food and distribution of liquor and making of beds, in the houses of kings and cheiftains, had ended. That women had no share in bag or in basket, nor in the company of the house-master; but she dwelt in a hut outside the enclosure, lest bane from sea or land should come to her chief."
Notes:
1. A derivative of cumal, 'a female slave, bondmaid'.
http://tinyurl.com/yfzh8p
"This document gives an indication of what life for women was like in the seventh century, Cumalach (that is little slave) was a name for women till Adomnan come to free them it says......"
http://tinyurl.com/ydfgrc
"... the door is the boundary between the foreign and domestic
worlds in the case of an ordinary dwelling, between the profane
and sacred worlds in the case of a temple. Therefore to cross
the threshold is to unite oneself with a new world." - quoting
Arnold van Gennep via Kim McCone in Pagan Past and Christian
Present in Early Irish Literature.'
http://tinyurl.com/urp5t
So, this is what I wonder. If I've understood the situation correctly, one of the purposes that a woman served was as a support for the spit on which meat was roasted. In order to carry out the task she stood, or knelt (or sat - although it hardly seems likely that there would have been that much consideration for her comfort) in a hole. She was naked and I think it was the hole which was deep enough to cover her nakedness (as well as placing her at the appropriate spit-resting level). The hole was dug at the end of the door's swing, or travel - in other words, beyond the furthest point that the door reached.
One reason for my wondering if this is what is meant is that later in that paragraph, we learn that women lived outside the enclosure of the house in case her presence inside brought bad luck upon the master. So possibly, this bad luck might extend to her presence whilst on spit-supporting duty.
The other reason is that the text I found about the significance of the door suggests very clearly that beyond the door is beyond the dwelling - thus once again keeping her and her bad luck firmly outside of the cosy domestic scene.
So I wonder if the way to translate the phrase would be something along the lines of 'beyond the dwelling' - in whatever style and register you're using for the whole text. And that's something I wouldn't dare to suggest in Polish. but I hope this will have helped. :-)
(Looking at the way they treated women before the arrival of Saint Adomnan, I do wonder how the species managed to survive . . . )
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-01-14 03:11:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I suggested something along the lines of 'beyond the dwelling'. However, perhaps closer to the original would be something like:
'at the point where the door marked the ende of the dwelling' ?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-01-14 03:12:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
'end' of course - without the very Olde English 'e' - sorry about the typo
| Caryl Swift
بولندا
يعمل في الحقل
اللغة الأصلية هي: أنجليزي
نقاط مستوى المحترفين في الفئة: 8
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The translation workplace 
