| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | DTP and Photoshop Lightroom 3 Thread poster: Tony.J.A.@DT
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Tony.J.A.@DT 
United States
Local time: 04:32
English to French
+ ...
Hello everyone,
So i'm looking into providing some "basic" DTP service to one of my clients.
He doesn't need an exact replica of the original documents but something fairly close.
So I've been looking around for an affordable solution and I can get my hands on a VERY cheap Legit Photoshop Lightroom 3 (for less than $40.00)
Is this user friendly and good enough to work with PDF images and picture... See more Hello everyone,
So i'm looking into providing some "basic" DTP service to one of my clients.
He doesn't need an exact replica of the original documents but something fairly close.
So I've been looking around for an affordable solution and I can get my hands on a VERY cheap Legit Photoshop Lightroom 3 (for less than $40.00)
Is this user friendly and good enough to work with PDF images and picture files? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 10:32
German to Swedish
+ ...
| Good enough for what? | Jun 1, 2012 |
Like all pro-level applications there is a learning curve.
What do you expect to be able to do with PDF files in Lightroom? Lightroom is basically an image workflow solution for professional photographers. It's not an application for creating images from scratch, not a text editor, it's doesn't do page layouts.
If you want to recreate PDFs you can do this in Indesign or even (for simple layouts) in MS Word.
| | | | Tony.J.A.@DT
United States
Local time: 04:32
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I just want to be able to reproduce a scanned PDF that's just a flat picture and edit all of its text content (using the original font, the right boxes, the right inclination, etc.), without having to fork hundreds of dollars for InDesign.
So I was wondering if anyone was successful doing DTP w/ Photoshop or is this software just good for editing photos.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 01:32
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Tony.J.A.@DT wrote:
I just want to be able to reproduce a scanned PDF that's just a flat picture and edit all of its text content (using the original font, the right boxes, the right inclination, etc.), without having to fork hundreds of dollars for InDesign.
So I was wondering if anyone was successful doing DTP w/ Photoshop or is this software just good for editing photos.
DTP doesn't mean to produce something that looks good on your little computer screen in low-res and RGB, DTP means to produce something that is ready for an industrial printing press in CMYK, you are aware of that, right?
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Tony.J.A.@DT
United States
Local time: 04:32
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi Nicole, yes I'm aware of that...
Now back to my topic, has anyone used Photoshop for DTP and is satisfied with it or is that software not very suited for that activity (and I'm talking about the interface and ease of use...) ?
| | | | | Adobe now offers subscription models... | Jun 1, 2012 |
You can "rent" an InDesign license from Adobe for USD 29.99 a month, or for USD 19.99 a month for a whole year.
For a one-off job I'd say it's very convenient; be warned however that, as Mr. Braun says, most of their tools have a steep learning curve and you should factor in the time it'll take you to learn how to use it effectively.
And yes, Lightroom is for image post-processing and cataloguing, I'm not even sure it has text manipulation (Photoshop Lightroom *is not* ... See more You can "rent" an InDesign license from Adobe for USD 29.99 a month, or for USD 19.99 a month for a whole year.
For a one-off job I'd say it's very convenient; be warned however that, as Mr. Braun says, most of their tools have a steep learning curve and you should factor in the time it'll take you to learn how to use it effectively.
And yes, Lightroom is for image post-processing and cataloguing, I'm not even sure it has text manipulation (Photoshop Lightroom *is not* Photoshop CS!).
All that being said, I'd really consider redoing the design in Word if you don't need it to match perfectly; after all, Word does have some pretty nifty capabilities and if the design is not overly complex it's certainly feasible. And if are not able to use Word to reproduce a simple design, you'll definitely won't be able to learn InDesign in time...
[Edited at 2012-06-01 15:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 01:32
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | The software is not suitable | Jun 1, 2012 |
Tony.J.A.@DT wrote:
Hi Nicole, yes I'm aware of that...
Now back to my topic, has anyone used Photoshop for DTP and is satisfied with it or is that software not very suited for that activity (and I'm talking about the interface and ease of use...) ?
As a long-term PS user since the mid-90s, owner of the full license and the company itself being one of my direct clients, I can assure you that this software has never been designed for typesetting purposes. To use this software for any other purposes than to enhance photos or to create typographical/layout effects makes as much sense as using MS Word for video editing.
| | | | Tony.J.A.@DT
United States
Local time: 04:32
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you Rossana | Jun 1, 2012 |
Rossana Triaca wrote:
You can "rent" an InDesign license from Adobe for USD 29.99 a month, or for USD 19.99 a month for a whole year.
For a one-off job I'd say it's very convenient; be warned however that, as Mr. Braun says, most of their tools have a steep learning curve and you should factor in the time it'll take you to learn how to use it effectively.
And yes, Lightroom is for image post-processing and cataloguing, I'm not even sure it has text manipulation (Photosop Lightroom *is not* Photosop CS!).
All that being said, I'd really consider redoing the design in Word if you don't need it to match perfectly; after all, Word does have some pretty nifty capabilities and if the design is not overly complex it's certainly feasible. And if are not able to use Word to reproduce a simple design, you'll definitely won't be able to learn InDesign in time...
Very interesting Rossana! Particularly, the "Lightroom =/= CS", that's exactly what I was wondering.
I actually did and delivered the job w/ Word (and yes we had an agreement about formatting not part of my job as translator ) but the client asked me if there's was a way to re-work some of the files using the original design and look, and Word won't cut it (neither will Trados) for the documents that I have (since it's scanned pictures of bank statements and financial docs with a bunch of charts and tables surrounded by text and images/logos)
With Word, adding text boxes and toying with columns gave a pretty sad and pitiful result, the alignment looked amateur, and the freedom to move images and text within the document is... well pretty much non-existent... Word will not help me for what I need here.
I also tried Publisher (since it came with MS Office Pro), but it doesn't work too well with these scanned PDF, doesn't even open them, gotta open them as a picture and then everything went south from there...
I guess I can look into a monthly InDesign license but I know me, once I get my hands on a software and I like it, I just end up buying it... and I was hoping for a more affordable alternative, you know kind of like Wordfast/Trados...
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Tony.J.A.@DT
United States
Local time: 04:32
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nicole Schnell wrote: Tony.J.A.@DT wrote:
Hi Nicole, yes I'm aware of that...
Now back to my topic, has anyone used Photoshop for DTP and is satisfied with it or is that software not very suited for that activity (and I'm talking about the interface and ease of use...) ?
As a long-term PS user since the mid-90s, owner of the full license and the company itself being one of my direct clients, I can assure you that this software has never been designed for typesetting purposes. To use this software for any other purposes than to enhance photos or to create typographical/layout effects makes as much sense as using MS Word for video editing.
Hmm.. I see. Yeah I guess I can forget about Lightroom
And is that comment true for Photoshop CS as well?
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 01:32
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Why don't you simply hire a graphic designer? | Jun 1, 2012 |
Tony.J.A.@DT wrote:
I also tried Publisher (since it came with MS Office Pro), but it doesn't work too well with these scanned PDF, doesn't even open them, gotta open them as a picture and then everything went south from there...
I guess I can look into a monthly InDesign license but I know me, once I get my hands on a software and I like it, I just end up buying it... and I was hoping for a more affordable alternative, you know kind of like Wordfast/Trados...
We translators always complain that all kinds of people think they can translate because their grandma was born in whatever-country, so it must be in the genes, and they just bought some software which of course comes with NativeSpeakerCapability3.0, right?
Desktop Publishing is a profession, not to be mixed up with Graphic Design. Why can't we simply leave some tasks to professionals who actually have a glue about what they are doing.
Your client might be pleased with the looks of your home-made graphic concoctions. Until the phone call from the printing company comes in, asking for the "real" files, not the mock-ups. That's when the proverbial organic matter will hit the proverbial mechanical arrangement of rotating vanes.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 01:32
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Bank statements and the likes | Jun 1, 2012 |
Tony.J.A.@DT wrote: I actually did and delivered the job w/ Word (and yes we had an agreement about formatting not part of my job as translator ) but the client asked me if there's was a way to re-work some of the files using the original design and look, and Word won't cut it (neither will Trados) for the documents that I have (since it's scanned pictures of bank statements and financial docs with a bunch of charts and tables surrounded by text and images/logos) With Word, adding text boxes and toying with columns gave a pretty sad and pitiful result, the alignment looked amateur, and the freedom to move images and text within the document is... well pretty much non-existent...
We are not supposed to commit forgery. I do realize that financial statements or any other forms are a pain in the neck and nobody wants or is even remotely paid enough to retype this stuff. In this case I use a professional PDF converting software (I use PDF Converter Professional, the best $300 I ever spent on software), where I can work with call-outs, text boxes, overlays, comments, opaque or non-opaque in all variations - without changing the original and without falsifying official documents (called: fraud). Such software will also allow you to add music/audio, video and animations to your translation, if your client is in need of entertainment or wants to have the translation read out aloud. 
| | | | Tony.J.A.@DT
United States
Local time: 04:32
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
We translators always complain that all kinds of people think they can translate because their grandma was born in whatever-country, so it must be in the genes, and they just bought some software which of course comes with NativeSpeakerCapability3.0, right?
hahaha that was actually really funny, love your comments lol!
Of course out of respect for my client I directed him to a printing agency
I just wanted to dab into the mystic arts of DTP without having to drink too much Kool-Aid
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Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 10:32
German to Swedish
+ ...
Speaking now as a professional graphic designer... Consider for a moment the implications of "reproduce a scanned PDF that's just a flat picture and edit all of its text content (using the original font, the right boxes, the right inclination, etc.)".
What is a "scanned PDF"? A paper document that's been scanned and saved as a PDF? In that case it could equally well have been saved as jpg. There is no text or font data in the document.
Assuming there is such an applicat... See more Speaking now as a professional graphic designer... Consider for a moment the implications of "reproduce a scanned PDF that's just a flat picture and edit all of its text content (using the original font, the right boxes, the right inclination, etc.)".
What is a "scanned PDF"? A paper document that's been scanned and saved as a PDF? In that case it could equally well have been saved as jpg. There is no text or font data in the document.
Assuming there is such an application, how should it handle text reflow issues that arise from new text length being different from existing text length? A glyph width difference of 1/1000 em is enough to cause text reflow over an entire document, potentially hundreds of pages. Or should every line layout be computed separately, so that longer text results in crammed and unreadable lines? But in that case you can't edit the text very well...
How would you expect the app to handle different hyphenation rules in the new language and the text reflow issues arising from that?
How would you expect the app to handle font copyright issues?
How should the application identify the fonts used in the document? (Remember, there's no font information included in a "scanned PDF"!) Should it have access to a vast online database? (There isn't one.) Should it order commercial fonts for you as you work? If not, how do you expect to be able to edit the text in the right font? (And there are hundreds of font vendors - high-quality, designy fonts often emanate from small foundries.)
How do you expect to handle multi-page PDF:s? How about PDF:s with different page sizes?
What about color - you need to be able to recolor stuff here and there, right? Should the application have an integrated color management system with ICC profiles? If not, how do you expect your customer to be able to use the PDF for printing?
How would you handle text that isn't even text at all, but vectorized line art with no font information?
Also, you need to be able to move or resize a box occasionally, right?
And by now we're getting to where what we really want and need is a full-featured page layout application...
***
You can do limited PDF editing (but not of PDFs that are scanned paper documents) using the full version of Adobe Acrobat. There are also various OCR programs around.
To recreate the look of a scanned document, use Indesign. It's a great application, well worth the cost and simple and quick to work with once you know it well (but not before!).
(Of course to recreate a layout exactly you need to buy the fonts involved - and identify the fonts used! - unless the document only uses freebie fonts...)
Cheers!
[Bearbeitet am 2012-06-01 19:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | DTP vs. Word Processing | Jun 1, 2012 |
No matter how bloated with features it has become, Microsoft Word is still a word processor. Its original paradigm is the ancient typewriter. As translators translate words, it has become the standard working tool for us.
The pioneering DTP software, PageMaker, InDesign's "father", has the art/paste-up studio as its original paradigm. A nice illustrated description of the old process replaced by DTP may be found ... See more No matter how bloated with features it has become, Microsoft Word is still a word processor. Its original paradigm is the ancient typewriter. As translators translate words, it has become the standard working tool for us.
The pioneering DTP software, PageMaker, InDesign's "father", has the art/paste-up studio as its original paradigm. A nice illustrated description of the old process replaced by DTP may be found on this page. Incidentally, PageMaker, and hence InDesign, follow as much as possible the old-time studio's tools and its way of getting things done, though in virtual reality.
Other professional DTP programs like FrameMaker and QuarkXpress don't follow any 'real world' paradigm, setting their own ones. Amateur-level DTP programs, like MS Publisher and Serif PagePlus too.
Anyway, this is the major difference between word processing and DTP is that they are different jobs.
The worst type of client a translator can get is the one that insists that a translator must do DTP, and that they must do it using Word. Wrong professional and wrong tool, though nothing prevents a translator from learning to do DTP (nor a bilingual DTP operator from learning translation). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 10:32
German to Swedish
+ ...
Right. A customer who expect translators to do DTP or work in Indesign is a customer who doesn't care all that much about the quality of the printed end product.
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