Is there a bottom line
Thread poster: Frank Zou
Frank Zou
Frank Zou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 19:47
Member (2016)
Chinese to English
+ ...
Mar 30, 2021

Just now I read a job posted showing a budget "$0.02 USD to $0.021 USD per word", and I saw 8 people quoting for it. Is there a bottom line here, guys?

 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:47
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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@Frank Mar 30, 2021

Frank Zou wrote:
Just now I read a job posted showing a budget "$0.02 USD to $0.021 USD per word", and I saw 8 people quoting for it.


Okay, well, the standard answers apply. No-one is required to quote within the budget, so some people may quote higher. Some people accept a small low-paying job as a way to get a foot in the door, if they suspect that higher paying jobs may be possible in future. Some jobs are easier and can be done quicker. And who knows... there might be places in the world where you can make a living off of 2c per word.


Emanuele Vacca
Philippe Etienne
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
ahartje
Mr. Satan (X)
Bajram Djambazi
 
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 12:47
English to German
In memoriam
Why should there be limits at the bottom or the top? Mar 30, 2021

Frank, the translation market is a continuum. It goes from free translations (MT and community/fan efforts) to highly specialized or creative work where a three word slogan can be worth thousands. It makes no sense to worry or complain about one particular offer that is particularly ridiculous or offending. Even if there seem to be quotes on it, you cannot be sure if they quoted within the budget, or if they are simply desperate individuals quoting on everything. In the end, everyone will get... See more
Frank, the translation market is a continuum. It goes from free translations (MT and community/fan efforts) to highly specialized or creative work where a three word slogan can be worth thousands. It makes no sense to worry or complain about one particular offer that is particularly ridiculous or offending. Even if there seem to be quotes on it, you cannot be sure if they quoted within the budget, or if they are simply desperate individuals quoting on everything. In the end, everyone will get what they pay for. Some end clients are actually content with low quality if it fits their budget (for example with documents they are legally required to have but that will never be read anyway). Others will learn it the hard way and find out that they are defeating their own purpose.

[Edited at 2021-03-30 13:03 GMT]
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Dan Lucas
Philippe Etienne
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Robert Rietvelt
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Kevin Fulton
ahartje
 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
Keeping things in perspective Mar 30, 2021

While the consternation over low rates is certainly understandable, I think that we can all find a certain degree of solace in the fact that - as far as I am aware - no jobs have been posted on the Jobs Board that require applicants to actually pay for the privilege of doing the work.

Thus, at the very worst - and this seems rare - posters will request that work be done on a purely voluntary basis. Apart from such infrequent exceptions, all posted jobs do offer some form of monetar
... See more
While the consternation over low rates is certainly understandable, I think that we can all find a certain degree of solace in the fact that - as far as I am aware - no jobs have been posted on the Jobs Board that require applicants to actually pay for the privilege of doing the work.

Thus, at the very worst - and this seems rare - posters will request that work be done on a purely voluntary basis. Apart from such infrequent exceptions, all posted jobs do offer some form of monetary compensation - along with payment terms that seem to unanimously fall within one calendar year of the delivery date of the translation.

In other words, yes, there is a bottom line: zero compensation.

It strikes me that it would save a lot of time and heartache if everyone bore this in mind when consulting the Jobs Board.

[Edited at 2021-03-31 10:47 GMT]
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Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:47
German to English
+ ...
Who quotes price? Mar 30, 2021

Since when does a customer dictate how much they will pay for a product or service? If this is happening, and if in part it becomes a "norm" then the relationship between professional and customer shifts.

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 12:47
English to French
+ ...
Post title Mar 30, 2021

Robert Forstag wrote:
no jobs have been posted on the Jobs Board that require applicants to actually pay for the privilege of doing the work.


Not to sound too harsh, but it's a bit like saying "The delivery guys here don't beat you up with rusty metal pipes, how kind of them". What I mean is that it's a basic minimum that clients don't ask us to pay for a chance to work for them (even though we do pay ProZ on some quotes). By accepting lower and lower rates, I wouldn't be surprised it happens someday...


Peter Shortall
 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
3rd world ex-colonies? Mar 30, 2021

Remember, there are lots of places with English, Spanish, or French as a regional or national language.

If somebody decently literate picks up a second language somehow (school, work, migration, living in a border region, whatever) in places where average salaries are $200-300 / month (if that), guess what? Eventually, as the internet is becoming more and more prevalent everywhere, they are ALL coming for the bottom end of the international freelance translations market.

... See more
Remember, there are lots of places with English, Spanish, or French as a regional or national language.

If somebody decently literate picks up a second language somehow (school, work, migration, living in a border region, whatever) in places where average salaries are $200-300 / month (if that), guess what? Eventually, as the internet is becoming more and more prevalent everywhere, they are ALL coming for the bottom end of the international freelance translations market.

Especially with MTPE, where you really only need one native language at high literacy and another language at high school foreign language level ONLY to work the bottom end, if you're willing to be slower than the competition and/or could care less about quality.


PS and with COVID, unemployment is high everywhere. Some of these people quoting might not even KNOW how much $0.02 / word is or isn't, they are just branching out trying to get some sort of new paid work

[Edited at 2021-03-30 18:12 GMT]
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Baran Keki
Christopher Schröder
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 
Frank Zou
Frank Zou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 19:47
Member (2016)
Chinese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I can see people worrying Mar 31, 2021

Seeing so many people's reply alone indicates that you guys are indeed concerned with the situation. Actually, it's not just the low rate that I'm talking about, it's the trend that's worring.

Are you worried about the MT that is becoming increasingly mature? I'm afraid, in the end, only a few among us can become a real master in translation while the job of most of us will be replaced by machines. Those of us who are still living on the fantasy that translation is a well-paid caree
... See more
Seeing so many people's reply alone indicates that you guys are indeed concerned with the situation. Actually, it's not just the low rate that I'm talking about, it's the trend that's worring.

Are you worried about the MT that is becoming increasingly mature? I'm afraid, in the end, only a few among us can become a real master in translation while the job of most of us will be replaced by machines. Those of us who are still living on the fantasy that translation is a well-paid career should wake up and learn the truth. Let's not pretending that business is booming and everyone is happy.

We need to do anything or just wait to be phased out with the advancing of times.
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Stuart Hoskins
 
LIZ LI
LIZ LI  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 19:47
French to Chinese
+ ...
I've seen worse. Mar 31, 2021

Weeks ago, someone contacted me via Proz about a job paid 6 usd/hour...
And there were students asking me about freelancing and trying to start their translation career, but yet all gave up... because they are having these offers of 0.01 usd/word... ridiculous but true stories.
Even worse, MT shuts the door on these young translators, not on me, not on you (at least most of you).
There may not be a bottom line, but we're eligible to set ours.


[Edited at 2021-04-01
... See more
Weeks ago, someone contacted me via Proz about a job paid 6 usd/hour...
And there were students asking me about freelancing and trying to start their translation career, but yet all gave up... because they are having these offers of 0.01 usd/word... ridiculous but true stories.
Even worse, MT shuts the door on these young translators, not on me, not on you (at least most of you).
There may not be a bottom line, but we're eligible to set ours.


[Edited at 2021-04-01 00:33 GMT]
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Christopher Schröder
Stuart Hoskins
 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
Keeping things in perspective - Part 2 Mar 31, 2021

While there might be some grounds for concern, I once again think it important to take a number of factors into consideration that have received scant attention in this rather gloomy discussion of freelance translators’ current realities and prospects. So, once again, in the interest of keeping things in proper perspective, I offer the following:

1. While many of the offers posted on the Jobs Board might seem unacceptable – if not downright insulting – to many of us, it is imp
... See more
While there might be some grounds for concern, I once again think it important to take a number of factors into consideration that have received scant attention in this rather gloomy discussion of freelance translators’ current realities and prospects. So, once again, in the interest of keeping things in proper perspective, I offer the following:

1. While many of the offers posted on the Jobs Board might seem unacceptable – if not downright insulting – to many of us, it is important to remind ourselves that we do function in a global market. And so there are millions for whom a rate of US$0.02/word represents more than a living wage. And there are those occasional postings that offer considerably more than this (sometimes even as high as US$0.06/word) which, though far from ideal, could serve as “filler work” during otherwise idle periods.

2. As has been pointed out repeatedly in the forums – including in this very thread – many of the best offers for freelance work for which this site serves as a conduit are transmitted not through the Jobs Board, but via direct e-mail messages to translators. I personally can say that it sometimes takes a good deal of time to sift through the messages I find in my inbox containing such lucrative offers. Even when, with a heavy heart, I am forced to turn some of these down, I am left with a good feeling when I see that an agency has taken the time to personally address an e-mail to me containing an offer that represents a professional fee for my services, and typically without cumbersome “onboarding” requirements.

3. Apart from the personally transmitted offers I’ve just described, I find myself fairly barraged with requests to register in the database of agencies, both startups and established firms. I am sure that I am not alone in this. Each such registration represents an opportunity for more work, and some of these can well turn into long-lasting and highly remunerative collaborations.

4. This site offers numerous resources to freelancers through the webinars it facilitates and the conferences it advertises. Such events represent an opportunity to build an extensive network of contacts, and to hear from real experts about how to survive and thrive in a highly competitive market. Many colleagues in these forums generously share their own tips and tricks in this regard. It is important to appreciate and utilize such treasured resources to our advantage.

In sum, while all may not be sunshine and rainbows, we need not despair. Let us instead appreciate the opportunities we have, press forward with determination, and work toward creating a brighter tomorrow.
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Dan Lucas
 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Typo? Mar 31, 2021

LIZ LI wrote:

Weeks ago, someone contacted me via Proz about a job paid 6 usd/hour...
And there were students asking me about freelancing and trying to start their translation career, but yet all gave up... because they are having these offers of 0.1 usd/word... ridiculous but true stories.
Even worse, MT shuts the door on these young translators, not on me, not on you (at least most of you).
There may not be a bottom line, but we're eligible to set ours.


$0.1 USD = $0.10 USD

None too amazing, but certainly tolerable


 
LIZ LI
LIZ LI  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 19:47
French to Chinese
+ ...
Caught me Apr 1, 2021

[quote]Adieu wrote:

LIZ LI wrote:

$0.1 USD = $0.10 USD

None too amazing, but certainly tolerable


Noted & corrected!

Consider it a typo, not a mistake...I don't want to ruin our reputation in math...


 
Stuart Hoskins
Stuart Hoskins
Local time: 12:47
Czech to English
+ ...
"it's the trend that's worrying" Apr 1, 2021

Frank, I've been saying this for years. Back in 2010, I ventured that MT would render most translators redundant by 2020. The standard reply was that "no, the sky is not falling in", and indeed my prediction proved to be a little too pessimistic, but we're getting there. Personally, I just need to hang on for another ten years now, but every time I see youngsters asking for advice here on getting established and whether a translation MA will help them and whatnot, my instinctive answer (in my he... See more
Frank, I've been saying this for years. Back in 2010, I ventured that MT would render most translators redundant by 2020. The standard reply was that "no, the sky is not falling in", and indeed my prediction proved to be a little too pessimistic, but we're getting there. Personally, I just need to hang on for another ten years now, but every time I see youngsters asking for advice here on getting established and whether a translation MA will help them and whatnot, my instinctive answer (in my head; I don't put pen to paper) is don't. Just don't. The last translators standing will be the belles-lettres guys. The rest of us will be proofreading MT.Collapse


Robert Forstag
 
Mr. Satan (X)
Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
Well... Apr 1, 2021

Stuart Hoskins wrote:

I ventured that MT would render most translators redundant by 2020.


Unless you're venturing in the creative part of town. MTs still don't really know how to translate texts that have emotional attachments to it. And by the time they can actually feel emotions, we would have bigger things to worry about than the translation business.


Sanjin Grandić
David Jones
 


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Is there a bottom line







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