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Access to Blue Board records and jobs using browniz points and cash to be discontinued as of Nov. 15
ناشر الموضوع: Jared Tabor

Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
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Local time: 16:53
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Take it or leave it Nov 8, 2016

Last time I checked, proz was not a state-owned and regulated enterprise but a private one meaning that the owner is free to introduce any changes as he pleases and when he pleases. There are plenty more fish in the sea and nobody is forced at knifepoint to maintain proz membership.
I agree with Ilan Rubin that up to now the paying members have sponsored non-paying colleagues.

[Edited at 2016-11-08 04:35 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-11-08 09:33 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-11-
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Last time I checked, proz was not a state-owned and regulated enterprise but a private one meaning that the owner is free to introduce any changes as he pleases and when he pleases. There are plenty more fish in the sea and nobody is forced at knifepoint to maintain proz membership.
I agree with Ilan Rubin that up to now the paying members have sponsored non-paying colleagues.

[Edited at 2016-11-08 04:35 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-11-08 09:33 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-11-08 12:09 GMT]
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Andrea Halbritter  Identity Verified
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I think it's normal to pay Nov 8, 2016

If you use a website like Proz I think it's normal to pay for it.

Proz is not a charity but a company which also needs to live.

Some say they get customers via Proz but do not want to pay. I don't find that logical.

Beside of sometimes not renewing my membership immediately because I've something else to do, I have always been a paying member of Proz and never regretted it. As I am fairly active on Kudoz I do get quite a few direct customers through this si
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If you use a website like Proz I think it's normal to pay for it.

Proz is not a charity but a company which also needs to live.

Some say they get customers via Proz but do not want to pay. I don't find that logical.

Beside of sometimes not renewing my membership immediately because I've something else to do, I have always been a paying member of Proz and never regretted it. As I am fairly active on Kudoz I do get quite a few direct customers through this site.

[Modifié le 2016-11-08 06:45 GMT]
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writeaway  Identity Verified
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For partial members the price has gone up by a lot Nov 8, 2016

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi all,

OK, Jason has made it so that members and site users who have at least 4000 browniz get a $10 discount when selecting either package (Plus or Standard). Note that this discount applies for the first year only, since (to repeat) the subscription management service that we are using does not support payments with points.

Regarding price, which someone incorrectly said has gone up, this $10 discount brings the price of the Standard package in the current campaign down to $99, for even a new member. So that is 20-40% less than it was before. I hope you can see that we are working very hard to deliver value in the Standard membership at a minimal cost.


Henry


Hi Henry,
I have been a partial jobs member for several years. When I renewed in August, I paid €67. People who have partial community membership pay even less. So for us, there is definitely a substantial price increase of at least 50% and more if the browniz discount is no longer applicable at the time we are due to renew. I am disappointed to see you have now eliminated these two options.
Will the $10 browniz discount now apply after November 15th? Or is November 15th still the cut-off date for using browniz?


 

Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:53
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That unidentified "subscription management service" Nov 8, 2016

Dear Henry,
You haven't answered my earlier question in this thread about asking the "third party" to whom subscription management has been/is being outsourced to find a way of continuing the Browniz discount on subscription renewals.
You simply say that the (unidentified) subscription management service doesn't handle points discounts.
But why not?
Proz is that entity's customer. Why cannot Proz require it to find a way of handling points discounts? If Proz used to be ab
... See more
Dear Henry,
You haven't answered my earlier question in this thread about asking the "third party" to whom subscription management has been/is being outsourced to find a way of continuing the Browniz discount on subscription renewals.
You simply say that the (unidentified) subscription management service doesn't handle points discounts.
But why not?
Proz is that entity's customer. Why cannot Proz require it to find a way of handling points discounts? If Proz used to be able to do so, which it has done since I've been a member, why cannot the subscription management service do so too? Henry, you are its boss! If it won't/can't comply, why not find one which can?
Please explain.
Jenny
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Tom in London
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Ich auch Nov 8, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:

Dear Henry,
You haven't answered my earlier question in this thread about asking the "third party" to whom subscription management has been/is being outsourced to find a way of continuing the Browniz discount on subscription renewals.
You simply say that the (unidentified) subscription management service doesn't handle points discounts.
But why not?
Proz is that entity's customer. Why cannot Proz require it to find a way of handling points discounts? If Proz used to be able to do so, which it has done since I've been a member, why cannot the subscription management service do so too? Henry, you are its boss! If it won't/can't comply, why not find one which can?
Please explain.
Jenny


Me too: please provide:
- the name and address of the third party;
- full details of how they will store my personal information and bank details;
- assurance that personal information will not be passed to anyone else;
- assurance that personal information will not be used for any purpose other than payment of Proz membership;
- assurance that personal information will be deleted if my Proz membership expires or is terminated.

I would consider it normal practice to provide those assurances, without needing to ask.

[Edited at 2016-11-08 10:17 GMT]


 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 09:53
مؤسس الموقع
Privacy policy Nov 8, 2016

Tom in London wrote:
Jenny Forbes wrote:
Dear Henry,
You haven't answered my earlier question in this thread about asking the "third party" to whom subscription management has been/is being outsourced...

Me too: please provide:
- the name and address of the third party...
I would consider it normal practice to provide those assurances, without needing to ask.

Absolutely. People sometimes think of ProZ.com as either a service business or a software business. In fact we are neither; we don't sell software and we don't sell services. We think of ourselves more as a network, or to put it differently, the "industry's database". For this reason, privacy protection is very important. Writing a privacy policy is one of the first things I did at ProZ.com. We update it regularly, and since 2009, we have paid TRUSTe to verify that our policy is strict enough to meet and exceed the data and privacy protection requirements established by not only our home jurisdiction (the US), but also the EU and elsewhere. It is all here: http://www.proz.com/privacy

Companies we work with have their privacy, too, so we can't always disclose them. In this case we can; the company we are relying on for subscription management is a Paypal company. Here is the relevant section from our privacy policy:

Such information is provided to ProZ.com subsidiaries, affiliated companies or other trusted businesses or persons for the purpose of processing personal information on ProZ.com's behalf. For example, ProZ.com uses payment processors such as PayPal to bill you for goods and services, email service providers such as MagnetMail to send out emails on our behalf, and chat service providers such as BoldChat to facilitate live online support chats. ProZ.com shares email address, contact information, and payment details as necessary for the third party to provide that service. These companies do not retain, share, store or use personal information for any other purposes. ProZ.com requires that these parties process such information based on ProZ.com's instructions and in compliance with this privacy policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures.


 

Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
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Local time: 15:53
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So let me get this straight Nov 8, 2016

Payment via Browniz, given in return to contributing to the site, is being removed, because the ProZ CEO can't (won't?) find a company able to provide a tiered payment system that would take such points into account to give discounts on membership.

The new standard package will cost less than membership does currently, but only if we sign up for something that hasn't been finalised yet, with payment to be made through a company which cannot be named.

And I thought Brex
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Payment via Browniz, given in return to contributing to the site, is being removed, because the ProZ CEO can't (won't?) find a company able to provide a tiered payment system that would take such points into account to give discounts on membership.

The new standard package will cost less than membership does currently, but only if we sign up for something that hasn't been finalised yet, with payment to be made through a company which cannot be named.

And I thought Brexit was complex.

[Edited at 2016-11-08 15:22 GMT]
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Elizabeth Joy Pitt de Morales  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
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Nov 8, 2016



[Editado a las 2016-11-08 15:38 GMT]


 

TranslateThis  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:53
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ROI guarantee = closing out your Proz.com profile? Nov 8, 2016

Henry Dotterer wrote:

please consider finally giving ProZ.com membership a try. I can assure you that we work very hard to have it be worth the price to you, and more. And I would say that if you look for it, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that we do ok. (Seventeen years of history, the testimonials, the ROI guarantees and so on.)


Most people probably don't read the fine print, so I will post this bit here:

"If I don't realize a return on my investment, how do I go about obtaining a refund?
We use the honor system. At the end of your membership year, you will have the possibility of filling out a refund request form stating the amount you did earn, if any, from clients met through ProZ.com, ProZ.com Mobile, TM-Town, the "translation center" and API partners of ProZ.com. Those filling out the form will be asked to (1) swear that they are being truthful in reporting the amount earned from clients met through the various channels, and (2) agree to *CLOSE OUT THEIR PROFILES* (as evidence that ProZ.com has not worked for them)."

If you request a refund because you are not happy with paid membership, you have to delete your profile?

*Emphasis mine


 

Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:53
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Please answer my question Nov 8, 2016

Dear Henry,

Thank you for your post timed at 13:35 today.

However, you still haven't answered my now twice-reiterated question:
Why can't/won't Proz ask its subcontractor, the Paypal-related entity now managing Proz subscriptions, to implement the Browniz points discount?

Who's in charge in that relationship - Proz or the Paypal-related entity?

If the Paypal-related entity can't/won't provide what Proz wants, why not find a more helpful a
... See more
Dear Henry,

Thank you for your post timed at 13:35 today.

However, you still haven't answered my now twice-reiterated question:
Why can't/won't Proz ask its subcontractor, the Paypal-related entity now managing Proz subscriptions, to implement the Browniz points discount?

Who's in charge in that relationship - Proz or the Paypal-related entity?

If the Paypal-related entity can't/won't provide what Proz wants, why not find a more helpful and cooperative entity?

Please consider this question, Henry, and please provide an answer.

Jenny
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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
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Local time: 15:53
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Election day Nov 8, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:

you still haven't answered my now twice-reiterated question


Perhaps Henry has gone to the polling station?


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
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Hard to imagine there's no possible workaround Nov 8, 2016

Jenny Forbes wrote:
Why can't/won't Proz ask its subcontractor, the Paypal-related entity now managing Proz subscriptions, to implement the Browniz points discount?

Maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to simply pass the BrowniZ to this provider and expect them to handle them the way ProZ.com has always done. But surely a discount flag could be toggled on or off? Or we could be given an actual code to input at the time of renewal. That's all that needs to be passed to and fro. ProZ.com could continue to handle everything else, including the reduction in the points total once the purchase has been processed. For that matter, the same could easily apply to job quotes and BB access (although the toggle flag would be better in that case as it's easier to use and so quicker).

Surely there are loads of other data items to be passed between the two entities? One year or multiple years; student, corporate or translator membership; basic or the new plus membership for translators; VAT and other tax info ... Why is a discount so impossible?

For that matter, why can't those of us in Europe (the majority, I believe?) be invoiced in euros? PayPal certainly doesn't restrict transactions to US dollars.


 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
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Exactly Nov 8, 2016

TranslateThis wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

please consider finally giving ProZ.com membership a try. I can assure you that we work very hard to have it be worth the price to you, and more. And I would say that if you look for it, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that we do ok. (Seventeen years of history, the testimonials, the ROI guarantees and so on.)


Most people probably don't read the fine print, so I will post this bit here:

"If I don't realize a return on my investment, how do I go about obtaining a refund?
We use the honor system. At the end of your membership year, you will have the possibility of filling out a refund request form stating the amount you did earn, if any, from clients met through ProZ.com, ProZ.com Mobile, TM-Town, the "translation center" and API partners of ProZ.com. Those filling out the form will be asked to (1) swear that they are being truthful in reporting the amount earned from clients met through the various channels, and (2) agree to *CLOSE OUT THEIR PROFILES* (as evidence that ProZ.com has not worked for them)."

If you request a refund because you are not happy with paid membership, you have to delete your profile?

*Emphasis mine


However, I've been told (by Jared), that only applies to the "Plus" membership...

This "ROI guarantee" is being marketed (including the visual emphasis and wording itself) as something extraordinary, while I find it's actually less than the money back guarantee that applies (and applied) to the (old) "standard" membership. More fine print: "If at the end of your first year after purchasing the Plus package ... you have not earned back from clients met via the site at least what you invested in the Plus package, ProZ.com will refund the money that you are "out" on the deal (up the full amount you have paid, less payment fees lost during the transaction)". So, basically, if after a year of "Plus" membership you tell them you have earned less than $149/180 with clients you met through ProZ, you'll get a refund, with the refund being "equal to the difference between what you paid and what you earned, less the settlement fees and sales taxes that were lost in the payment transaction", and then your account gets closed down...


 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
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Simple checkout + external payment system Nov 8, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Hard to imagine there's no possible workaround


Most (if not all) of the e-commerce website we all use everyday have an internal basket+checkout system (which often includes cards/coupons/codes/etc.), and then the resulting amount is paid through an external payment processor...


 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
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Open Discussion vs. Imposition Nov 8, 2016

Maija Cirule wrote:

Take it or leave it

Last time I checked, proz was not a state-owned and regulated enterprise but a private one meaning that the owner is free to introduce any changes as he pleases and when he pleases. There are plenty more fish in the sea and nobody is forced at knifepoint to maintain proz membership.


I honestly never find it very edifying or enriching when an open discussion is "countered" with a "take it or leave it" (or "if you don't like it, there's the door") stance. I believe this way of reasoning, based on ultimatums and a totally top-down approach isn't a particularly healthy, constructive and open way of discussing things and comparing different points of view, especially in what is sometimes referred to as a "community" (?).

Besides — and it should go without saying — the power to enforce something has nothing to do with the moral/ethical, fairness, etc. aspects of that something being enforced.

And by the way, what are those "plenty more fish in the sea", and how is that relevant, when the discussion centers around the changes that are being implemented to a specific platform, and the people discussing them are members (many for several years) of that platform and have invested their time in it?


 
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