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NEVER ask the client
ناشر الموضوع: Daniel Frisano

Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
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  Apr 12

This kind of reaction is to be expected: there’s nothing like burning heretics at stake and finding each other’s support in your righteousness to silence those pesky inner doubts, so you can go back to blaming your favourite evil (machine translation, Indian agencies, infectious microorganisms, you name it) if you get less and less qualified, well-paid job.

Luckily, there will be many who quietly realise that assuming full responsibility and solving clients’ problems (rather t
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This kind of reaction is to be expected: there’s nothing like burning heretics at stake and finding each other’s support in your righteousness to silence those pesky inner doubts, so you can go back to blaming your favourite evil (machine translation, Indian agencies, infectious microorganisms, you name it) if you get less and less qualified, well-paid job.

Luckily, there will be many who quietly realise that assuming full responsibility and solving clients’ problems (rather than expecting them to solve yours) is what makes you a truly valuable asset. Don’t give up, and most importantly, refuse to be sucked into someone else’s mediocrity.

I'll eschew the loud and stay with the quiet, thank you.

[Edited at 2021-04-12 19:33 GMT]
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Gerard Barry
 

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So, Daniel... Apr 12

... today I completed the main body of a super-important 30,000-word document (no questions, result!) but then when translating one of the diagrams I came across a five-step process in which two of the steps were labelled with exactly the same text.

Well, I thought, that is very odd. In fact, I think it must be wrong, so I can't just translate what it says. And I don't read minds, so I can't guess what it should say. What should I do?

Well, I must confess I did somethi
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... today I completed the main body of a super-important 30,000-word document (no questions, result!) but then when translating one of the diagrams I came across a five-step process in which two of the steps were labelled with exactly the same text.

Well, I thought, that is very odd. In fact, I think it must be wrong, so I can't just translate what it says. And I don't read minds, so I can't guess what it should say. What should I do?

Well, I must confess I did something highly unprofessional. Yes, I asked the client.

And they said, oops, yes, that was a mistake, we cocked up there. Well spotted. However, Chris, we're very disappointed in you. We pay you to be a mind reader, you know, and if you think we're not going to ditch you for this after 15 years of faithful service, think again, you loser.

I won't make that mistake again.
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Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
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  Apr 12

It has happened to me more than once. Same identical situation or very similar.

Invariably, the steps were described in the main text, I fixed the error based on the information I had, and I informed the client of the mistake when delivering the translation, well in advance so amendments could be made if needed. No amendments or further comments were ever needed.

That's it. It's called problem solving. That's what we grown-ups do.

Then again, if nobody ever
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It has happened to me more than once. Same identical situation or very similar.

Invariably, the steps were described in the main text, I fixed the error based on the information I had, and I informed the client of the mistake when delivering the translation, well in advance so amendments could be made if needed. No amendments or further comments were ever needed.

That's it. It's called problem solving. That's what we grown-ups do.

Then again, if nobody ever teaches you to wipe it, you may end up believing that having it wiped by someone else is the right way to go, and that wiping it yourself is an extremely arduous and risky operation riddled with guesswork.

Now I need to go back to work. Cheers.

[Edited at 2021-04-12 21:11 GMT]
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Gerard Barry
 

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Nomenclature Apr 12

Daniel Frisano wrote:
It's called problem solving. That's what we grown-ups do.


No, I think you’ll find it’s called guessing. Or fudging. Or bodging. Or making a dog’s dinner. That’s not what grown-ups do.

If I actually believed that you never ask questions (and I don’t), I most certainly wouldn’t want to be your professional indemnity provider. As you know perfectly well, sometimes they just have to be asked.

PS I would appreciate it if you didn’t try to lump me in with the incompetent translators your clients use.


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Skipping the title Apr 12

*** that assuming full responsibility and solving clients’ problems ... is what makes you a truly valuable asset.***

Sounds like every mother-in-law's motto.


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Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
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  Apr 12

Chris S wrote:

I would appreciate it if you didn’t try to lump me in with the incompetent translators your clients use.



Just ignore me.

If you were the self-assured professionals you're trying to come across as, you wouldn't waste 2 nanoseconds fretting over someone else's opinion of you, especially from someone who in your belief is totally off-target. I am certainly indifferent of your opinion.

And if I was so blatantly wrong as you're relentlessly trying to imply, you wouldn't need to try so hard to prove your point, again and again - unless it's directed at suppressing your own insecurity, that is.

No need to make thing worse by trying even harder. Your argument is already stale enough as it is.

Stop being a problem for your (and possibly my) clients, and become a solution. Everybody will be happy.

[Edited at 2021-04-13 00:47 GMT]


Gerard Barry
 

Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
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One last advice Apr 13

If the situation allows, visit 2 or 3 of your best clients. Take them out to lunch. Make sure there is wine going around.

Bring up this topic and other topics of your choice. Make a point of registering in your head every single word everyone says. What you will learn is invaluable.

THAT is how a professional operates.

You can thank me later.


 

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lovely advice Apr 13

Daniel Frisano wrote:

If the situation allows, visit 2 or 3 of your best clients. Take them out to lunch. Make sure there is wine going around.

Bring up this topic and other topics of your choice. Make a point of registering in your head every single word everyone says. What you will learn is invaluable.

THAT is how a professional operates.

You can thank me later.



I try to imagine myself taking to lunch some federal prosecutors or some fbi agents and while enjoying a cheeseburger and a glass of wine, ask them why some of their extradition requests are so full of material mistakes.

I will try it. Thank you for your advice!

Lee


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Lambrusco Superiore Apr 13

Daniel Frisano wrote:

If the situation allows, visit 2 or 3 of your best clients. Take them out to lunch. Make sure there is wine going around.

I don't believe that alcohol will make their source texts any better, because I am sometimes under the impression, that some of them were written under the late influence of alcohol (or something stronger). But perhaps you were not talking of serving wine to the writers or the first of instance translators, but to their bosses? Then there is hope that the first ones get fired (be prepared to offer an alternative "resource").]

[Bearbeitet am 2021-04-13 05:09 GMT]


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Philip Lees  Identity Verified
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Troll update Apr 13

I have to admire Daniel's skill and timing in the art of trolling. One part of the etymology of the word relates to a method of fishing where you drop in the bait and then draw it gently through the water, in the hope that some fish will go for it.

Daniel has repeated this procedure several times now in this discussion, and each time the same fish come out to nibble at the bait.

Note, though,
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I have to admire Daniel's skill and timing in the art of trolling. One part of the etymology of the word relates to a method of fishing where you drop in the bait and then draw it gently through the water, in the hope that some fish will go for it.

Daniel has repeated this procedure several times now in this discussion, and each time the same fish come out to nibble at the bait.

Note, though, that "Trolling is used to catch pelagic fish", i.e. not bottom feeders.
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P.L.F. Persio  Identity Verified
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Braggadocio Apr 13

Typical way of expressing yourself in a country that starts with an I, and ends in a Y (and you don't want to know the because, trust me on that one).

For those of you who understand la lingua del sì, here's something that sums up – effectively albeit not elegantly – a certain attitude towards life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MDY-8DVqjs

[Edite
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Typical way of expressing yourself in a country that starts with an I, and ends in a Y (and you don't want to know the because, trust me on that one).

For those of you who understand la lingua del sì, here's something that sums up – effectively albeit not elegantly – a certain attitude towards life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MDY-8DVqjs

[Edited at 2021-04-13 10:50 GMT]
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Baran Keki  Identity Verified
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I can't help taking the bait Apr 13

Daniel Frisano wrote:

If the situation allows, visit 2 or 3 of your best clients. Take them out to lunch. Make sure there is wine going around.


So most of your clients are located in Italy then? No wonder you're not asking them any questions, because you know exactly how the Italian mind works when it comes to composing texts in English. Some of the worst texts I've seen in English were either created or back translated by Italians.
Taking PMs to lunch... what a great advice!


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P.L.F. Persio  Identity Verified
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Shaddap you face! Apr 13

Baran Keki wrote:

Some of the worst texts I've seen in English were either created or back translated by Italians.


You take that back, Baran, you take that back NOW!


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Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
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There are Italians ... Apr 13

... and then there are Italians, Portia.

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Mea culpa! Apr 13

P.L.F.Persio wrote:
You take that back, Baran, you take that back NOW!


I actually regretted giving that example, but I thought it might somehow explain Mr. Frisano's point of view. Of course, one shouldn't make generalizations, otherwise, judging by the OP's posts here, one might make the error of thinking of Italian people as arrogant and condescending lot, which is not true of course
But, I did have the misfortune to translate a lot of content written by Italians as an in-house translator and their texts always struck me, for want of a better word, as 'peculiarly written/translated'. I once asked about this to an Italian client during an interpretation job, and he told me that this was because they started learning English in Italy at the age of 14! I couldn't believe it.


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