renounces probate

French translation: renonce à agir en qualité/renonce à sa qualité d\'exécuteur testamentaire

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:renounces probate
French translation:renonce à agir en qualité/renonce à sa qualité d\'exécuteur testamentaire
Entered by: Lucia28

17:14 Dec 2, 2020
English to French translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
English term or phrase: renounces probate
Bonjour,
Il s'agit d'un testament et ces mots se trouvent dans le contexte qui suit :
"I appoint my wife xxx the sole executrix of this Will but if she predeceases me *renounces probate" or dies without having proved my Will then I appoint ..."
Merci beaucoup
Lucia28
France
Local time: 13:27
renonce à agir en qualité/renonce à sa qualité d'exécuteur testamentaire
Explanation:

Les testaments, pas mon truc (trop flippant), mais... ?

« Renouncing probate means refusing to act as executor. »
Eliza Hall ci-dessus

« Fill in either form PA15 or PA16 if you want to give up your legal responsibility and role permanently (also known as ‘renunciation’) to apply for probate to manage the estate of someone who died as either:
an executor named in their will or their spouse or civil partner acting as an administrator.
»
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pa15-apply-f...
(sans oublier de mentionner la contribution de Sandra Mouton en bas de page)

« M. Y... était recevable à agir en qualité d’exécuteur testamentaire »
https://www.courdecassation.fr/jurisprudence_2/premiere_cham...

« Une fois qu'il a accepté sa mission, l'exécuteur testamentaire ne peut plus y renoncer. »
http://leparticulier.lefigaro.fr/jcms/p1_1694862/heritage-l-...

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Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2020-12-04 14:30:57 GMT)
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Oups, oublié de citer le commentaire d'AllegroTrans : « "renounce probate" which is vague and presumably means "renounce executorship" »
Selected response from:

ph-b (X)
France
Local time: 13:27
Grading comment
Merci beaucoup !!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3renonce à agir en qualité/renonce à sa qualité d'exécuteur testamentaire
ph-b (X)
5renonce à / s'abstient de demander les lettres d'homologation (du testament)
Daryo
2renonce/r à la représentation successorale
Adrian MM.
3 -2renonce à (ou refuse) l’homologation
François Tardif
Summary of reference entries provided
Probate renunciation (GB)
Sandra Mouton

Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
renonce à (ou refuse) l’homologation


Explanation:
renonce à (ou refuse) l’homologation [Procédure par laquelle les tribunaux approuvent un acte et lui confèrent la force exécutoire d'une décision de justice.] GDT

"Probate": "homologation, authetification, validation" Dict. juridique fra-ang Harrap's

Et fiche 2 de Termium
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...

François Tardif
Canada
Local time: 08:27
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 31
Notes to answerer
Asker: Merci beaucoup François !


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Germaine: C'est peut-être effectivement couper les coins ronds, alors je me rends à certains arguments compte tenu de ce que je vois d'habitude et de la traduction que je ferais moi-même de la phrase.
46 mins
  -> Merci Germaine!

disagree  Daryo: you can not "renounce" (and even less "refuse"!!) s.t. that you have to apply for to get it // you can only "renounce to apply" for it
6 hrs
  -> Daryo, you may be right sensu stricto, but you have to translate what is in the ST – renounces probate – which implies, even in English, that the wife renounces (to apply) probate…

disagree  Eliza Hall: This is not what "renouncing probate" means. https://www.legalchoices.org.uk/dictionary/renouncing-probat...
20 hrs
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
renounce/s probate
renonce/r à la représentation successorale


Explanation:
Probate doesn't rule out a 'partial intestacy', namely if some property is undisposed of, so Letters of Admin, 'cumn testamento anexo' is issued.

I have a niggling suspicion that the 'chain of representation' to take out probate or 'extract a grant of probate' - namely the widow lines up with other beneficiaries . is being subtly alluded to here, namely la représentation and not the 'drot successif' > right to inherit vs. inheritance duty as such.

*Remember: use plain legal French and keep it SIMPLE*



Example sentence(s):
  • si une procédure judiciaire est ou était en instance, apportez les documents correspondants (p. ex. "Probates" – certificat d'homologation)
  • La représentation successorale permet de déroger à la règle de la priorité selon le degré en permettant à un héritier d'un degré plus éloigné

    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/1102...
    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-french/law-general/2382...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 35

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: your refs DO NOT prove that there are any cases where you wouldn't have to apply to obtain probate in England ans Wales
25 mins
  -> Wrong AGAIN: next-of-kin, 'intermeddlers' & even creditors can be cited: www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/guidance/probate-actions-citatio... cf. Q 50 www.sra.org.uk/globalassets/documents/sra/sqe1-functioning-...

agree  AllegroTrans: This seems to be closer to the intended meaning of "renounce probate" which is vague and presumably means "renounce executorship"//strange how your sensible suggestion is apparently falling on some deaf ears
34 mins
  -> Thanks, Chris. Keeping it 'simple' is tongue-in-cheek because this area of law isn't at all....

disagree  Germaine: AT a raison sur : renounce executorship. Mais la "représentation successorale" n'a rien à y voir: c'est un mécanisme d’exception qui déroge à la dévolution successorale. // You extrapolate. This makes no sense in this sentence.
10 hrs
  -> It is in E&W where the order of executorship passes down a chain of representation. YYou should know this if you have been a probate practitioner.
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
renonce à / s'abstient de demander les lettres d'homologation (du testament)


Explanation:
the "probate" is NOT something that the authorities are going to go chasing you to take - you won't ever be in position to literally "renounce" or even less to "refuse" probate.

You will have to apply for probate, and the Court is the one that can refuse to grant probate.

IOW whatever a superficial grammatical analysis would suggest this is what makes real-life sense:


*renounces probate" = do not apply for probate
or
dies without having proved my Will = do apply for probate but dies before obtaining probate.

The most literal interpretation - "if my wife obtained probate but just decided to sit on it doing nothing" is certainly not impossible (people do have all sorts of weird atitudes) but I very much doubt that such an eventuality would ever be part of a testament.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2020-12-03 14:05:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What is probate?

Probate explained by probate solicitors

Probate Definition: In England and Wales Probate is the word normally used to describe the legal and financial processes involved in dealing with the property, money and possessions (called the assets) of a person who has died.

Before the next of kin or Executor named in the Will can claim, transfer, sell or distribute any of the deceased's assets they may have to apply for Probate.

When Probate has been granted through a Grant of Probate or Letters of Administration the next of kin or Executor can start to deal with the deceased person’s assets in accordance with their Will. If the deceased died without a Will the law will determine who should receive everything, see probate without a Will for complete details.

https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/probate-solicitors/what...

OTOH

Form
Forms PA15 and PA16: Give up your role to manage the estate of someone who's died
Give up your role permanently as an executor or administrator to get probate to manage the estate of someone who’s died.

Published 19 July 2018
Last updated 18 February 2020 — see all updates

From:
HM Courts & Tribunals Service
Documents

Form PA15: give up your right as an executor
PDF, 60.8KB, 3 pages

Form PA16: give up your right as an administrator
PDF, 60.1KB, 3 pages

Details

Fill in either form PA15 or PA16 if you want to give up your legal responsibility and role permanently (also known as ‘renunciation’) to apply for probate to manage the estate of someone who died as either:

an executor named in their will or
their spouse or civil partner acting as an administrator

If you’re an executor
You can give up your responsibility to manage the estate so that another executor can apply for probate instead.

If you’re a spouse or civil partner
If you’re a spouse or civil partner you can give up your rights as an administrator to get letters of administration so a child of the person who died who is over 18 can get it instead.

This does not give up your claim to the estate if you’re a named beneficiary.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pa15-apply-f...

this form is primarily about "renouncing to apply" - not applying at all, not exercising your right to apply, but it's doesn't seem to exclude the possibility of changing your mind later.



A Grant of Representation is a legal document that you may need in order to deal with a deceased person’s Estate and wind up their affairs. If the deceased left a Will, this is called a Grant of Probate. If they didn’t leave a Will, this is known as a Grant of Letters of Administration.
https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-m...



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Note added at 20 hrs (2020-12-03 14:13:43 GMT)
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more

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/print


Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:27
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 266
Notes to answerer
Asker: Comme il s'agit d'un contexte britannique la réponse me semble adéquate au contexte


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  François Tardif: Ok, but then you are explaining more in the TT than what is in the ST…
54 mins
  -> Merci!

agree  Gladis Audi, DipTrans
11 hrs
  -> Merci!

neutral  Adrian MM.: 'the "probate" is NOT something that the authorities are going to go chasing you to take -..' wrong /OTOH/. Cut to 'citations'. The Probate Reg. of the High Ct, can 'cite' others, like intermeddlers & creditors, to take out probate if the widow doesn't.
11 hrs
  -> As far as I could find you have to apply it's not coming to you on its own. OTOH people changing their mind after obtaining probate doesn't seem to be so unusual, if there is even a form for that.

disagree  Eliza Hall: Renouncing probate means refusing to act as executor. It doesn't have to do with the will or the letters. Someone else will become executor. https://www.legalchoices.org.uk/dictionary/renouncing-probat...
13 hrs
  -> "Renouncing probate means refusing to act as executor" - agree with that - and it's a better formulation / so what's the practical consequence of that? you don't exercise your right ***to apply for*** probate Where is the fundamental difference?

disagree  Germaine: Agree with Eliza. Et désolée, mais je ne vois pas la différence entre "renoncer à l'homologation du testament" et "renoncer à demander (en FR) un certificat d'homologation". So, since you disagree with François...
20 hrs
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1 day 21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
renonce à agir en qualité/renonce à sa qualité d'exécuteur testamentaire


Explanation:

Les testaments, pas mon truc (trop flippant), mais... ?

« Renouncing probate means refusing to act as executor. »
Eliza Hall ci-dessus

« Fill in either form PA15 or PA16 if you want to give up your legal responsibility and role permanently (also known as ‘renunciation’) to apply for probate to manage the estate of someone who died as either:
an executor named in their will or their spouse or civil partner acting as an administrator.
»
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pa15-apply-f...
(sans oublier de mentionner la contribution de Sandra Mouton en bas de page)

« M. Y... était recevable à agir en qualité d’exécuteur testamentaire »
https://www.courdecassation.fr/jurisprudence_2/premiere_cham...

« Une fois qu'il a accepté sa mission, l'exécuteur testamentaire ne peut plus y renoncer. »
http://leparticulier.lefigaro.fr/jcms/p1_1694862/heritage-l-...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2020-12-04 14:30:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oups, oublié de citer le commentaire d'AllegroTrans : « "renounce probate" which is vague and presumably means "renounce executorship" »

ph-b (X)
France
Local time: 13:27
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 80
Grading comment
Merci beaucoup !!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Germaine
1 hr

agree  Daryo: better formulation
6 hrs

agree  François Tardif
1 day 12 hrs
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Reference comments


17 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Probate renunciation (GB)

Reference information:
S'il s'agit d'un contexte britannique.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pa15-apply-for-renunciation-will
Sandra Mouton
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  ph-b (X)
1 day 3 hrs
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