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English language (monolingual) [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
English term or phrase:and his fate decided
Hello everyone.
The situation is as follows: Two brothers have killed a deer, but the wolves are nearby.
“If we run,” Geirmund said, “they’ll track us and rip out our throats as we sleep.” “Surely not,” Hámund said, but without conviction. “I’d also wager the people of Olund are well-acquainted with this wolf.” “And if they are?” Geirmund turned toward his brother, frowning. “They are of Rogaland and loyal to our father. They are our people. And you will one day be their king.” Hámund straightened at the accusation that Geirmund had stopped just short of making, his honor now at stake ***and his fate decided***. “Come, brother.” Geirmund grinned and raised his weapons. “Do you want to fight? Or would you rather try to negotiate a trade agreement for the deer?” He nodded toward the wolves. “They’d be glad to offer terms, but not in our favor.”
I understand "his honor now at stake" to mean that he (Hámund) was insulted by what his brother had said or was going to say. I understand the phrase "and his fate (was) decided" in general, but I'm not sure as to what it implies in this particular context? By who or by what was Hámund's fate decided in that particular moment?
When Hámund said (in reponse to Geirmund's comment: “I’d also wager the people of Olund are well-acquainted with this wolf.”)
“And if they are?”
it seems to be quite a flippant remark, implying that he really couldn't care less. I believe that is why Geirmund frowned and reminded him that these are their people, loyal to their father and who will be loyal to him also when he becomes king one day. So the accusation that he stopped short of making would seem to be that Hámund's attitude was making him unworhty to be a king if he is not prepared to protect hios people.
Yes, similar to what Tony has said. Hámund is forced to confront the truth that he is honour bound, or morally obliged (his duty) to deal with the wolves. (Hámund straightened at the accusation that Geirmund had stopped just short of making, his honor now at stake and his fate decided."
So yes, his fate is decided by the fact that his destiny/fate is to become king, but to be worthy of becoming king he must act like one now and protect his people
there is an interesting back story to the historical brothers (and the series is based quite often on historical figures and sagas)
even before reading the other related question, (and the part added by Mikhail) is that these two brothers have to worry about staying alive, NOT about protecting anyone else (like killing ONE wolf to protect their future subjects). They are simply not in position to do so.
What is sure - given the reaction of his brother - is that:
“I’d also wager the people of Olund are well-acquainted with this wolf.”
was definitely the wrong thing to say, although I can't see in which way it's wrong.
Yes, that element I don't understand - and the explanation that they are "duty bound to protect the villagers from ONE wolf" simply do no agree with the rest of this story.
We do seem to agree that the "fate" that is being decided is the suitability (or lack of it) of Hámund as future king, not their immediate fate / danger from the wolves.
Are you trying to divert attention from your miscomprehension?
We all know there is more than one wolf! "This wolf" clearly refers to the pack leader described in a previous question https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/poetry-literature/6856451... and Geirmund clearly sees her as clever and cunning "she did not rule by strength alone"
of course, there are several wolves - at least five. As for Olund:
“You would let them take what is yours?” Geirmund asked. “You would die for a deer when there’s a full larder at home?” The bluntness of that question caused Geirmund to stop and reconsider. They were three days out from their own hall at Avaldsnes. What had started as a short hunt for small game had quickly become something much more ambitious. Finding larger game scarce nearby, they had followed the Ålfjord northeast, far into the uplands that rose southwest of ***the village of Olund***, near the border with Hordaland. ***But they were still more than a day from that place***, their only refuge should the battle go ill for them. Geirmund smelled no smoke on the wind, no cookfires. Only the fragrance of the trees and the musk of sodden ground beneath the snow.
that is sure: they have more than one wolf to deal with:
Two brothers have killed a deer, but the wolves are nearby.
“If we run,” Geirmund said, “they’ll track us and rip out our throats as we sleep.”
You keep talking of two armed hunters against only one wolf? Would they have any need to "negotiate" in that case?
OTOH two hunters against a pack of wolves, that's another story.
From the fragment we have, all I can see is that the two brothers are in imminent danger, not the "people of Olund" (we don't even know if Olund is some village nearby, or simply the name for the locality)
it is Geirmund who comments: “I’d also wager the people of Olund are well-acquainted with this wolf.”
and there is no insult to anyone there. He is merely pointing out that this wolf (+pack) has probably been in this area for some time now so the people are well aware of it
Sorry, I have to disagree most strongly with your comments below. There is no insult, and no-one has made any disparaging remarks about the people. His brother simply reminds him that his duty as future King of these people is to look after their well-being (i.e. by eradicating the wolf) — and the fact that they cannot be unaware of the wolf's existence (i.e. it is not just a stray who happens to have wandered by); they have probably lived in fear of it for ages, and would expect their future King to rid them of this threat. Maybe they don't know their future King is there; but it would certainly tarnish his reputation if he showed cowardice in this situation. I think the brother is simply spelling out to him how he sees his duty lying — which might possibly not yet have dawned on him.
“I’d also wager the people of Olund are well-acquainted with this wolf.”
From the reaction of his brother, that seems to be a disparaging comment.
OTOH, as living surrounded by (very literal) packs of wolves is not very common nowadays (we have all sorts of crooks and conmen instead ...), it's not very obvious why or how "being well-acquainted with a wolf" would be a slur on "the people of Olund", but it certainly is in this story.
The "accusation" would be that Hámund is disparaging his own future subject.
"This wolf" is just one of them - probably the leader of the pack - but these brothers are confronted with a whole pack - there is no way they could manage to kill the whole pack if attacked.
I think the choice they have is to take the deer with them and be followed by the pack - and killed as soon as they fall asleep OR leave the deer to the wolves in exchange for safe passage.
Trying to get into the mindset of that era, "deciding his fate" (Hámund's fate) could mean that by his actions he could show himself as being unworthy of being a king.
You wrote: "..."his honor now at stake" to mean that he (Hámund) was insulted by what his brother had said or was going to say" I wouldn't say he was "insulted" — it was just that his brother had pointed out that it was no longer a choice of "shall we kill the wolf, or run for our lives?", as he had a duty as their future King to protect his people from the wolf; so it had become a matter of duty, and if he shied away from that, then it would compromise his 'honour' (and perhaps potentially his fitness to be their King). His brother is just explaining why he really has no choice... Overall, it means that circumstances have dictated what he must do (or appear a coward), so the "decision" has been taken for him — try to think of 'decided' here as not being about 'choice', but simply that what happens to him now has been 'determined' by the circumstances.
I don't think we can know this without reading the story.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
1 hr confidence:
by duty
Explanation: From what I understand, Hámund had two choices:
1) Run from the wolves, which would have negative consequences for the people of Olund 2) Deal with the wolves (by fighting or negotiating), which benefit the people of Olund. He had a sense of duty to them because he would be their king.
It looks like he chose 2). So that was his fate.
So you could say his fate was decided by duty (or some other intrinsic characteristic that made him choose 2).
Brent Sørensen Germany Local time: 00:36 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
5 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
he had no choice
Explanation: his fate would be decided one way or the other
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2020-08-09 04:39:20 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
his fate is sealed
David Hollywood Local time: 19:36 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 118
6 hrs confidence:
the end or final result
Explanation: In my opinion Hámund's fate decide by his own decision which is join to the battle. in this particular context, Fate means the end/ final result after his decision.
Anastasia Andriani Indonesia Local time: 05:36 Native speaker of: Indonesian
When Hámund said (in reponse to Geirmund's comment: “I’d also wager the people of Olund are well-acquainted with this wolf.”)
“And if they are?”
it seems to be quite a flippant remark, implying that he really couldn't care less. I believe that is why Geirmund frowned and reminded him that these are their people, loyal to their father and who will be loyal to him also when he becomes king one day. So the accusation that he stopped short of making would seem to be that Hámund's attitude was making him unworhty to be a king if he is not prepared to protect hios people.
Yes, similar to what Tony has said. Hámund is forced to confront the truth that he is honour bound, or morally obliged (his duty) to deal with the wolves. (Hámund straightened at the accusation that Geirmund had stopped just short of making, his honor now at stake and his fate decided."
So yes, his fate is decided by the fact that his destiny/fate is to become king, but to be worthy of becoming king he must act like one now and protect his people
there is an interesting back story to the historical brothers (and the series is based quite often on historical figures and sagas)
Reference information: Hjörleif then also married Hild the Slender (Hildr in mjóva) daughter of Högni of Njardey (Njarðey 'Njörd's-Isle', modern Nærøy). By Hild the Slender Hjörleif was father of Hjörólf (Hjǫrólfr) and Hálf (Hálf), this last being the hero of the saga. According to the saga and the Landnámabók (2.19 and following), Hálf was father of Hjör who married Hagný daughter of Haki, son of Hámund (Hámundr). Their children were the twins Hámund Hellskin (Hámundr heljarskinn) and Geirmund Hellskin (Geirmundr heljarskinn). Geirmund Hellskin settled in Iceland with his kinsman Úlf the Squinter. The Landnámabók describes Geirmund as a war-king who had dominions in Rogaland but names a certain Sulki as the true king of Rogaland, as do other accounts. However Grettis saga ('Saga of Grettir') states that Hördaland belonged to Geirmund and that Sulki ruled only South Rogaland.
Hversu Noregr byggðist (Old Norse: How Norway was inhabited) is an account of the origin of various legendary Norwegian lineages, which survives only in the Flateyjarbók. It traces the descendants of the primeval Fornjót, a king of "Gotland, Kænland and Finnland", down to Nór, who is here the eponym and first great king of Norway, and then gives details of the descendants of Nór (and of his brother Gór) in a following section known as the Ættartölur, 'Genealogies'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hversu_Noregr_byggdist
Daryo United Kingdom Works in field Native speaker of: Serbian, French
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