This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
in quota
a parti reali
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Feb 15, 2016 18:00
8 yrs ago
38 viewers *
Italian term

danno morale

Italian to English Law/Patents Law (general) types of damage/loss
In an indemnity against possible IP infringement claims - the indemnity extends to 'danno morale'. The entry we already have dates back 13 years so I'm hoping there have been pearls of wisdom since then - the alternative answers don't convince me either. Garzanti gives 'moral damage', which is not a recognised concept, at least not in the UK (although my translation is not for one particular jurisdiction). Danno morale involves the "sofferenze psichiche, dalle ansie e dal patema d'animo conseguenti alle lesioni subiti". So far I've come up with 'damage to psyche'.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 pain and suffering
4 +1 non-pecuniary loss
4 non-material damage
3 Personal injury

Discussion

Adrian MM. (X) Feb 16, 2016:
Moral vs. immoral loss or damage I only pray, Joanna, that the antonym of 'immoral intellectual property' damage doesn't rear its ugly (or welcome?) head.
Joanna M Cas (X) (asker) Feb 16, 2016:
On closing: Some of you will tear your hair out I know, but having done a lot of further research and given the type, length and function of the document in question, I came back to what I had discounted at the outset: moral damage. Had the type of doc. been different, I may well have used a different term: mental suffering or damage to psyche being two possibilities. Thanks for the input guys. It really helped, even tho it might not look like it!
Joanna M Cas (X) (asker) Feb 16, 2016:
Two points: (1) James - but as pointed out in the Petillo case, non-material damage comprises different subtypes of damage: (i) ‘damage to health’ (‘danno biologico’, meaning physical or mental injury); (ii) ‘psychological damage’ (‘danno morale’, meaning mental suffering caused by the injury); and (iii) ‘residual damage’ (often referred to as ‘danno esistenziale’, -impairment of the ability to enjoy [life]. Interestingly, mental suffering was what I came up with last night.

(2) To those who have raised the point: yes this does seem odd in the context of an IP claim, but it's there in black and white in the ST!
Adrian MM. (X) Feb 15, 2016:
Non-pec or non-econ loss The fact that non-precuniary or non-economic loss is a broad concept and includes PI, pain & suffering, nervous shock or emotional distress http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/finance_general... doesn't preclude use of the term in an IP context.
Joanna M Cas (X) (asker) Feb 15, 2016:
it is indeed non-pecuniary loss, but it is a precise element of non-pecuniary loss and not all of it (non-pec loss includes personal injury). So I'm not sure this is precise enough.
Joanna M Cas (X) (asker) Feb 15, 2016:
Thanks for your input Angela; the difficulty with this as I see it is that it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing everywhere else as it does in Italy.
Angela Guisci Feb 15, 2016:
Joanna I would use "moral damage". See this link https://www.google.it/?gws_rd=ssl#q=indemnity moral damage u...
philgoddard Feb 15, 2016:
The main reason I mentioned "danno psicologico" was because I thought someone else might put it as an answer. But I agree, and my preferred option is "pain and suffering".
Joanna M Cas (X) (asker) Feb 15, 2016:
Hi Phil - I'd thought of this but my research suggests that danno morale and danno psicologico are mutually exclusive.

Proposed translations

+1
18 mins

pain and suffering

You could also say psychological damage.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2016-02-15 18:19:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I agree that the previous KudoZ answers ("moral damage" and "non-material damage") are unhelpful.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2016-02-15 18:21:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And depending on the context, it may well be appropriate to put the Italian in italics with "pain and suffering" in brackets.
Example sentence:

Therefore, the present statute comes back to the distinction between danno biologico and pain and suffering (danno morale), which was almost undisputed ...

Danno morale is an ancient formula, which refers to the pain and suffering connected with an injury.

Reference:

http://books.google.com/books?isbn=3110246066

http://books.google.com/books?isbn=1139444735

Peer comment(s):
neutral Adrian MM. (X) : care to elucidate how this - admittedly standard (re-)insurance translation - could apply to an IP infringement scene? Indiscreet photos taken of the complainant seem(s) unlikely. & you haven't pre-empted Ivana's answer.//No, it isn't. NPL is much wider.
2 hrs
I have no idea, because we don't know the context. Someone has been caused emotional damage by something. But you agreed with "non-pecuniary loss", which is the same thing.
neutral James (Jim) Davis : Hi Phil I notice after posting that my post is hidden in your explanation. An explanation and a post are different things.
11 hrs
agree Peter Cox
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
54 mins

non-pecuniary loss

Hi Joanna,

I usually use this - Non-pecuniary loss (or damage, depending on the context)


Non-pecuniary damages are damages for “pain and suffering”, sometimes also described as “loss of enjoyment of life”. These damages are supposed to compensate the claimant for having to experience symptoms caused by the accident, having a loss of expectation of life, etc.

Non-pecuniary damages, sometimes described as “general damages”, are referred to as “non-pecuniary” because they involve an imprecise assessment of how much money is appropriate to compensate for loss of enjoyment of life, and are therefore unlike “pecuniary” damages which can be more accurately calculated:

http://www.icbcclaiminfo.com/node/169



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2016-02-15 19:41:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Non-pecuniary loss encompasses pain and suffering, loss of enjoyment of life, loss of amenities (e.g. the ability to walk), and loss of life expectancy.

http://www.simpsonthomas.com/icbc-claims/claim-for-damages/a...
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : Your reference actually includes my answer, so it's just a synonym.
17 mins
similar but not a true synonym as 'non-pecuniary' has a broader meaning (see above)
agree Adrian MM. (X) : fits an IP context, whereas 'nervous shock' - a relativey recent sub-category of EN tort law psychological harm - doesn't. http://iate.europa.eu/SearchByQuery.do;jsessionid=zYbfWCpP1t...
47 mins
thanks Adrian!
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Personal injury

Something went wrong...
11 hrs

non-material damage

The legal translators at eurlex (EU legal translation service) use this (one out of five gave "pain and suffering")

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-IT/TXT/?uri=CELEX:...

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-IT/TXT/?uri=CELEX:...

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-IT/TXT/?uri=CELEX:...

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-IT/TXT/?uri=CELEX:...

Search Google on "danni morali" site:eu eurlex"

and then the page on danni morali
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search