| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | 3 ideas: (1) differentiate easy/pro (2) give new members fair chance (3) random ordering of answers Thread poster: Dipl.-Kfm. Bernhard Aicher MBA
|
|---|
Uldis Liepkalns 
Latvia
Local time: 07:20
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
Dee wrote:
Why is it \"he doesn\'t\" and not \"he don\'t\"? [quote]
This example, sadly, isn\'t so far from reality, though, as we all understand, a person who doesn\'t know the answer shouldn\'t pose as a translator in the first place.
But who is to judge...
Therefore I have a proposal- in a translators profile to show beside KudoZ earned the number of questions asked. Or even better- proportion: answers given (not chosen)/questions asked. This wouldn\'t in any way infringe civil rights, but would provide some insight into person\'s attitude to his/her profession...
[addsig]
| | | | Carlos Moreno
Colombia
Local time: 23:20
English to Spanish
+ ...
| There *should* be differences | May 15, 2003 |
I firmly believe there *should* be a difference between somebody who does not care to spend --invest-- half an hour searching for a correct term (and I have done it) and somebody who translates \"I love you\". I find it a good idea to let our dear collegues --not competitors but fellows-- grade the difficulty of our answers. Although I find this to be a good method, I am aware that someone can have a better idea, and I would surely like to hear it.
I remember that once upon ... See more I firmly believe there *should* be a difference between somebody who does not care to spend --invest-- half an hour searching for a correct term (and I have done it) and somebody who translates \"I love you\". I find it a good idea to let our dear collegues --not competitors but fellows-- grade the difficulty of our answers. Although I find this to be a good method, I am aware that someone can have a better idea, and I would surely like to hear it.
I remember that once upon a time, a man from my own country answered EVERY question, and usually said such stupid things, we regarded him as the flea in the soup. Fortunately, he seems to have understood it, and ceased being a translator (I would like to know what he is doing now). Maybe this grading system could be used like some sort of sieve.
I firmly believe that ProZ.com is the best translator\'s site in the Net, and one of the best crafted pages in the Internet. And we all can see it get better every day. Henry and the rest of the staff are open-minded people. It is a real pleasure to be a part of it. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Dee,
I sent everyone in my SC, including you, the notification but you were too late, as I later wrote. I thought I was clear in my explanation. Obviously you didn\'t understand. Please read it again. And concluding that askers will be allowed less questions if they answer more is indeed perverse. It\'s very clear in my response to your question that I meant the opposite. Anyway, it\'s only one of the many proposals, which may not even be implemented.
If... See more Dee,
I sent everyone in my SC, including you, the notification but you were too late, as I later wrote. I thought I was clear in my explanation. Obviously you didn\'t understand. Please read it again. And concluding that askers will be allowed less questions if they answer more is indeed perverse. It\'s very clear in my response to your question that I meant the opposite. Anyway, it\'s only one of the many proposals, which may not even be implemented.
If you want your voice to be heard, I suggest writing your suggestions to KudoZ in this thread.
Marcus ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wayne Sutton (X)
Local time: 06:20
French to English
| What do we really want to achieve with the Kudoz system? | May 15, 2003 |
As a relatively new and infrequent user of the system, a couple of things have struck me.
1. When I ask a question, I am really looking for someone who has experience in the subject either as a translator or in their previous professional life. We can all do web searches and helpful as they may, they can\'t replace professional experience.
2.The reward scheme for replying to questions doesn\'t encourage the above. At the moment it is a mad scramble with more often ... See more As a relatively new and infrequent user of the system, a couple of things have struck me.
1. When I ask a question, I am really looking for someone who has experience in the subject either as a translator or in their previous professional life. We can all do web searches and helpful as they may, they can\'t replace professional experience.
2.The reward scheme for replying to questions doesn\'t encourage the above. At the moment it is a mad scramble with more often than not, the number of google hits being used to back up the answer. Blatantly wrong answers are not uncommon. Is this really the image of a professional translator that we want to give to our potential customers?
If the objective of Kudoz is to encourage translators to help each other then why not use Kudoz in the same way as Browniz for bidding? ie. If you want to ask a Kudoz question then you have to use your Kudoz points or pay.
▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Hermeneutica
Switzerland
Local time: 06:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
| To Marcus, no worries, man | May 15, 2003 |
Hi Marcus,
I realize it\'s my \"fault\" for not being able to get to the survey \"in time\" [I was actually taking the weekend off and only looking at messages - askance! - from time to time for urgent stuff]. Now, I will reproduce part of our exchange below and put in square brackets what I thought in reading it. This will conclusively show a) that men are from Mars and women are from Venus, and b) that our profession is nowhere near dying out ... in fact I find it seems... See more Hi Marcus,
I realize it\'s my \"fault\" for not being able to get to the survey \"in time\" [I was actually taking the weekend off and only looking at messages - askance! - from time to time for urgent stuff]. Now, I will reproduce part of our exchange below and put in square brackets what I thought in reading it. This will conclusively show a) that men are from Mars and women are from Venus, and b) that our profession is nowhere near dying out ... in fact I find it seems to be harder for translators to communicate unambiguously than for normal mortals 
Anyway, in your original mail encouraging us to respond, you said:
\" ... e.g., [...] limits based on activity (active answerer = lower limit; not so active answerer = higher limit),...\"
[METHINKS: A low limit means FEW questions, a high limit means A LOT of questions].
And so my question to you (as later also to Henry, which I only did because he happened to pop up in the discussion) had been:
\"I hope you don\'t really mean that if you are an active answerer the limit of questions you may ask would be lower??? In other words, the more answers you give, the fewer questions you are allowed to ask??????\"
And your response to this was in two parts:
First,
\"Some of them say that the limits should be
tied to the level of activitiy in the reciprocal direction, i.e., answering questions. So, for example,if you\'re active in answering question, your limit in *asking* question should be lower than, say, someone who\'s not so active in *answering* questions from colleagues. Get it now?\"
[METHINKS: No, I don\'t get it; again, a lower limit for asking (as applied to someone who answers a lot), see my METHINKS above, means they are allowed to ask *fewer* questions]
Followed by:
\"So to correct you: \"the more answers you give, the *more* questions you are allowed to ask.\"
[METHINKS: To correct me? Why correct me, since this is what I was hoping it was all along? And \"the more answers you give, the *more* questions you are allowed to ask.\" seems to me to be in direct contradiction with \"if you\'re active in answering question, your limit in *asking* question should be lower ...\"]
So you see I remained confused. In fact, it seems to me that the crux of my lack of understanding would be the definition of \"limit\".
I am at peace now with the answer to my real question, but as a purely academic issue I am still puzzling over the definitional issue as above.
As for making other suggestions, the problem I have with that is that, not having seen the original survey, I\'d rather not spend time reinventing the wheel; from your messages to me and Henry\'s here it seems like a lot of careful thought has already been devoted to the issue.
So, hoping you\'ll get a good chuckle out of my METHINKSES, here\'s till next time!
Dee
Quote:
On 2003-05-15 05:52, marcushm wrote:
Dee,
I sent everyone in my SC, including you, the notification but you were too late, as I later wrote. I thought I was clear in my explanation. Obviously you didn\'t understand. Please read it again. And concluding that askers will be allowed less questions if they answer more is indeed perverse. It\'s very clear in my response to your question that I meant the opposite. Anyway, it\'s only one of the many proposals, which may not even be implemented.
If you want your voice to be heard, I suggest writing your suggestions to KudoZ in this thread.
Marcus
[ This Message was edited by: Dee Braig on 2003-05-15 08:57] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 07:20
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| Grading the question difficulty | May 15, 2003 |
may be OK for big languages, but who\'s to grade a difficulty, of say, Estonian-Dutch question? You should be happy if you\'ll receive answer at all, not to speak of agrees or disagrees... if you don\'t count BrowniZ hunters, of course.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: uldis on 2003-05-15 12:00]
| | | | | Wayne's revolutionary idea! | May 15, 2003 |
Wayne wrote:
\"1. When I ask a question, I am really looking for someone who has experience in the subject …We can all do web searches…
2.The reward scheme … doesn\'t encourage the above. …Blatantly wrong answers are not uncommon…
why not use Kudoz in the same way as Browniz for bidding? ie. If you want to ask a Kudoz question then you have to use your Kudoz points or pay. \"
I, too, feel guilty of having found answers in ... See more Wayne wrote:
\"1. When I ask a question, I am really looking for someone who has experience in the subject …We can all do web searches…
2.The reward scheme … doesn\'t encourage the above. …Blatantly wrong answers are not uncommon…
why not use Kudoz in the same way as Browniz for bidding? ie. If you want to ask a Kudoz question then you have to use your Kudoz points or pay. \"
I, too, feel guilty of having found answers in Google, and often I would not have answered, feeling that the asker wants to hear an expert, and I did answer only because experience has told me that if I don\'t, the answer that arrives first may be even less founded than mine…
This is a problem that does not seem to be discussed by staff and moderators right now; but it can be solved quite easily by adopting Wayne\'s proposal.
Of course this would transform KudoZ into a gambling system: I place 4 KudoZ on my answer because I\'m sure it\'s true…
but there are also other solutions: obligatory choice of few fields of experience (except in the less common languages), or the reliability ratio already discussed…
▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 06:20
English to German
+ ...
Quote:
This is a problem that does not seem to be discussed by staff and moderators right now; but it can be solved quite easily by adopting Wayne\'s proposal.
It is being discussed; among other things, the current initiative Henry and his team have embarked on was triggered by discussions on the mods\' lists. The quality of answers is one of our main concerns.
Best, Ralf
| | |
|
|
|
Ron Stelter
Local time: 23:20
Member (2003)
German to English
| I agree with every word William says | May 15, 2003 |
He\'s one of the few people who can see the \"forest for the trees.\"
| | | | | What is all the fuss about? | May 16, 2003 |
I\'m a relatively recent member of ProZ and am delighted with having found it. It has also been a great resource, especially when I have an extremely urgent translation. OK some of the answers aren\'t the best, including some of my own, but so what? Sometimes I make an effort to give an answer to see if I can help dilucidate a point for someone, knowing that my answer is not perfect. A lot of times I give answers trying to be helpful and I\'m sure I\'m not the only one. Sometimes I take it as a ... See more I\'m a relatively recent member of ProZ and am delighted with having found it. It has also been a great resource, especially when I have an extremely urgent translation. OK some of the answers aren\'t the best, including some of my own, but so what? Sometimes I make an effort to give an answer to see if I can help dilucidate a point for someone, knowing that my answer is not perfect. A lot of times I give answers trying to be helpful and I\'m sure I\'m not the only one. Sometimes I take it as a game and look for points, and I know I\'m not the only one. But why all the bitching? It\'s a learning process. A few months ago, I did think that if something came up with hits in Google that was sufficient to mean it was good, and if someone is doing that now, it is a mistake, but innocent enough. As far as I\'m concerned ProZ is a resource that has been cleverly designed like an educational game that helps us to help each other. It\'s fun to get points but it\'s a mistake to take them too seriously.
All these withering comments I\'ve been reading are very off-putting.
[addsig] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 00:20
English to Spanish
+ ...
| The name of the game | May 17, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-05-16 22:56, Lclarke wrote:
What is all the fuss about?
Well, the problem is that some people here, (probably, but not exclusively confused by the name of the site), expect KudoZ to be about language professionals asking pertinent questions, and language professionals giving enlightening answers.
In reality, anyone can ask whatever, and anyone can answer whatever (righ... See more Quote:
On 2003-05-16 22:56, Lclarke wrote:
What is all the fuss about?
Well, the problem is that some people here, (probably, but not exclusively confused by the name of the site), expect KudoZ to be about language professionals asking pertinent questions, and language professionals giving enlightening answers.
In reality, anyone can ask whatever, and anyone can answer whatever (right, wrong, or anything in-between).
The end result is that those who have a clue (and patience) eventually get the help they need, and those who don\'t, well... good luck to them. They\'re going to need it.
But hey... after all, it\'s just a game, right?
I agree it shouldn\'t be taken too seriously.
[ This Message was edited by: Dyran on 2003-05-17 03:18] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Hermeneutica
Switzerland
Local time: 06:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Why must I award points to wrong answers??? | May 17, 2003 |
Hello, this is meant especially for all those who are actively involved in developing the new variants there will be to KudoZ.
This is the second time it happens that I ask a question and get answers ranging from nonsense to helpful attempts that are nonetheless wrong. I don\'t grade them, i.e. I don\'t choose one, because they are all wrong. Then I get a reminder to grade.
This last time I thought Fine, I\'ll decline the wrong answers, then there are n... See more Hello, this is meant especially for all those who are actively involved in developing the new variants there will be to KudoZ.
This is the second time it happens that I ask a question and get answers ranging from nonsense to helpful attempts that are nonetheless wrong. I don\'t grade them, i.e. I don\'t choose one, because they are all wrong. Then I get a reminder to grade.
This last time I thought Fine, I\'ll decline the wrong answers, then there are none left, then the system should leave me in peace. To be fair to the answerers, I posted a note explaining what the term had really turned out to be, and advised them in my \"rejection notice\" that the note had been posted.
Not a peep out of the answerers, all well and good.
But, lo and behold, what do I find in my mailbox again today????? Please grade your answers ....
==================
microcettes
http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=429745&gr=y&pwd=T7f7&l=en
==================
The other one this happened with was
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/287456
It\'s still there, but I hate the idea that the system might actually award points to wrong answers [the ones getting the most Agrees] because the asker doesn\'t!
Another thing I would really like to see is a possibility to split points at least between two answerers. There have been many cases where two or more people give the correct answer from different perspectives or with different substantiations, and *one*, not necessarily the first or the \"best researched\" happens to be the most useful to the asker. The one I remember best from my own asking history is
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/359853.
also
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/393955
or, even more so,
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/389381
So, these would be my \"additional\" suggestions if they have not already been considered.
Would it be possible to post on this thread what the survey questions had been? So at least we would a) not reinvent the wheel and b) perhaps come up with additional ideas with some lateral thinking.
Thanks and best
Dee
[ This Message was edited by: Dee Braig on 2003-05-17 09:47] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Hermeneutica
Switzerland
Local time: 06:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Filtering, excellent idea! | May 17, 2003 |
Durchschleusen in German rather than filtering I would say ... yes, is there a forced way to run a query thru the existing glossaries? Currently, when you are trying to ask a question, getting to the glossary is not the easiest of procedures, especially if you don\'t know, or remember, that it is there or how to access it. The system currently reminds you AFTER you\'ve asked your question. How about putting the glossary dialog boxes as the first thing that comes up with you click on Ask KudoZ Q... See more Durchschleusen in German rather than filtering I would say ... yes, is there a forced way to run a query thru the existing glossaries? Currently, when you are trying to ask a question, getting to the glossary is not the easiest of procedures, especially if you don\'t know, or remember, that it is there or how to access it. The system currently reminds you AFTER you\'ve asked your question. How about putting the glossary dialog boxes as the first thing that comes up with you click on Ask KudoZ Question? ?
Saturday morning tuppence from
Dee
Quote:
On 2003-05-14 18:01, jerrie wrote:
I think William\'s and Sheila\'s views sum up my own opinions in a nut shell.
I wonder if there is some way of filtering all questions via/through the glossary before they are actually posted/sent to ProZ members to answer.
This would eliminate a lot of the \'ultra easy\'/irritating questions, but the asker would still get their answer.
The first come first served may not always seem fair, but if answers are positioned randomly, don\'t you think this will lead to more complaints than the present system? Sometimes time is the only way to decide/peer grade.
▲ Collapse
| | | | Hermeneutica
Switzerland
Local time: 06:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
| About questions asked and answered ONE IMPORTANT SUGGESTION | May 17, 2003 |
In response to Uldis saying:
a translators profile to show beside KudoZ earned the number of questions asked. Or even better- proportion: answers given (not chosen)/questions asked. This wouldn\'t in any way infringe civil rights, but would provide some insight into person\'s attitude to his/her profession...
[unquote]
Excellent thought. Currently, you can see the questions asked by clicking on the little magnifying glass next to the member id in the main question panel.
You can see questions answered [all of them, whether or not having earned points] by clicking on the relevant area of the KudoZ bar to the right of a person\'s profile.
In fact, this is how I make my final decision when selecting translators [as an agency] after reviewing bids for quality of test translation, general background, presentation [sympa or not? After all, I want to work with people I feel comfortable with], and if all these things are equal or inconclusive.
It is a great tool, and for the sake of the professional image and usefulness of ProZ, I would suggest making customers more aware of how this works ... probably best on the profile, as suggested by uldis; something like: \"Click here to see questions asked by this person\" [a client will quickly decide that a person who keeps asking terms such as hepatitis or rotula, say, may not be the ideal choice for their complex medical translation] and \"Click on KudoZ points to see ALL questions ever answered by this person in that language/subject combination\".
Again, whether one\'s answer has been chosen or not, a client will easily be able to see whether it was in range or not.
This will also help avoid nonsense I myself have been guilty of, namely heading your answer simply \"see explanation\" [I think there is already a system filter, no?] and encourage at least a summary of the reply.
OK, hoping to have contributed something useful ...
Dee
[quote]
On 2003-05-14 20:35, uldis wrote:
Dee wrote:
Why is it \"he doesn\'t\" and not \"he don\'t\"? Quote:
This example, sadly, isn\'t so far from reality ... [snip]
Therefore I have a proposal- in a translators profile to show beside KudoZ earned the number of questions asked. Or even better- proportion: answers given (not chosen)/questions asked. This wouldn\'t in any way infringe civil rights, but would provide some insight into person\'s attitude to his/her profession...
| | | | Hermeneutica
Switzerland
Local time: 06:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
| ASKING QUESTIONS SHOULD REMAIN FREE | May 17, 2003 |
Hi Wayne,
I too am an infrequent \"user\" of the system, in the sense that I don\'t ask many questions.
Of late I have also not answered many, although anyone who goes to look and track by date will see that there have been periods where I have had more time and answered more.
This of course results in relatively few KudoZ points.
Another of the reasons for my not excessive number of points is that for about a year now I... See more Hi Wayne,
I too am an infrequent \"user\" of the system, in the sense that I don\'t ask many questions.
Of late I have also not answered many, although anyone who goes to look and track by date will see that there have been periods where I have had more time and answered more.
This of course results in relatively few KudoZ points.
Another of the reasons for my not excessive number of points is that for about a year now I have not answered easy questions any more except in cross-language combos [say Italian - German, where there may be fewer people available to answer] because a lot of abuse was occurring in certain combos [e.g ENES, ITEN]. I am also not a BrowniZ hunter; my ratio of BrowniZ to KudoZ has remained constant from the beginning at about 4:1.
But the most important reason is that I don\'t have much time to play the KudoZ game; I have simply been too busy working AND I tend to do my own research and find my own solutions, which does take a lot of time; not to mention doing a little bit of legwork for friends with lots of KudoZ points who don\'t want to be seen asking questions ))!
Before I ask a question for myself I usually spend on average at least an hour researching, maybe even three or more. If I come up really dry that is a sign for me that I am entirely on the wrong track and need outside help, or there is definitely something wrong with the text and I need confirmation.
So, it\'s not \"easy\" for me [and others in my situation] to earn lots of KudoZ points [especially since, unless one really is in it on a championship basis, one only gets points every so many answers, for a variety of reasons including ignorant askers choosing the wrong answers]. So I don\'t want my \"hard earned\" points to disappear when I *have* to ask a question [while others clearly ask much more readily].
Paying money gets even more complicated and would definitely be a discouragement overall.
Certainly asking questions should be free for paying members. We are already supporting the site, one of the benefits of paid membership [as indeed of free membership] is the asking of questions.
If a means for generating further revenue is sought, then I would suggest, if at all, that non-paying members should be \"taxed\".
This could work as an incentive with actual translators who simply currently don\'t feel a paid membership is a priority [and there may be legitimate monetary reasons for this] but it would, in my opinion, pretty much eliminate people who come to the site as a resource and may, one day, become customers [if nothing else to translate their docs to go live in the country of the person they just married after we translated all their love letters for free for months ! ]
Alternatively, if we consider ourselves as having a role as educators, the likes of \"Buttercup\" who for a longish period of time was asking all kinds of questions about a weird novel s/he was reading ... very interesting challenge to try to explain highly contextually cultural expressions, would also be discouraged. [By the way and I digress, did Buttercup ever award any points?]
My musings, but work calls.
Dee
On 2003-05-15 06:10, Wayne Sutton wrote:
As a relatively new and infrequent user of the system,
If the objective of Kudoz is to encourage translators to help each other then why not use Kudoz in the same way as Browniz for bidding? ie. If you want to ask a Kudoz question then you have to use your Kudoz points or pay.
[quote] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » 3 ideas: (1) differentiate easy/pro (2) give new members fair chance (3) random ordering of answers | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
