Proofreading/QC/Reviewing/"Second linguist check" Thread poster: Rad Graban (X)
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Rad Graban (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:51
English to Slovak
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What is the difference? Why is the "second linguist check" paid only @ £5.00/1000 words when you should:
"When revising the translation to focus on:
· Completeness – check that all text has been translated and the number of paragraphs/bullet points/headings etc.
· Comparing the source and target texts - ensure the source text has been translated accurately.
· Terminology – check that the correct terminology has been used and that any glossaries have been re... See more What is the difference? Why is the "second linguist check" paid only @ £5.00/1000 words when you should:
"When revising the translation to focus on:
· Completeness – check that all text has been translated and the number of paragraphs/bullet points/headings etc.
· Comparing the source and target texts - ensure the source text has been translated accurately.
· Terminology – check that the correct terminology has been used and that any glossaries have been referred to, where appropriate.
· Factual Accuracy – check that any factual data in the Source has been correctly copied into the Target e.g.
o dates
o amounts/figures
o names
o places
· Readability – ensure that the document reads well in the target language;
· Grammar and Spelling – spelling and grammar should be checked and any mistakes / typos etc. should be rectified." ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 20:51
English to German
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In memoriam | Difference to what? | Mar 30, 2010 |
The first linguist is the translator, the second linguist is the editor.
I presume the rates stated fell victim to a typing error, otherwise I wouldn't understand why anyone would waste precious man hours discussing stuff like this.
| | | | Rad Graban (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:51
English to Slovak
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | No, no 'typo'. | Mar 30, 2010 |
Nicole Schnell wrote: I presume the rates stated fell victim to a typing error, otherwise I wouldn't understand why anyone would waste precious man hours discussing stuff like this.
No, Nicole. This is not a 'typo'. I'm just wondering whether the "Second linguist check" is a new, 'fancy' name for a proofreading-cum-reviewing-cum-QC (something I'm not aware of) where 'special' rates apply. I didn't want to waste your time.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 04:51
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| I wouldn't call it "fancy" | Mar 30, 2010 |
I can think of many other (unprintable) adjectives, though, for a payment of £0.005 per word. It sounds to me as though they're making it out to be something "new" just so they can charge "new" rates.
Certainly, a QC role can be charged at less than normal proofreading rates. This would be a final check of texts that have already been proofread by the translator himself AND proofread/edited/revised by a second pair of eyes.
When it goes in for QC evaluation, it should... See more I can think of many other (unprintable) adjectives, though, for a payment of £0.005 per word. It sounds to me as though they're making it out to be something "new" just so they can charge "new" rates.
Certainly, a QC role can be charged at less than normal proofreading rates. This would be a final check of texts that have already been proofread by the translator himself AND proofread/edited/revised by a second pair of eyes.
When it goes in for QC evaluation, it should be more or less perfect - it's the evaluator's job to comment on the suitability of the translation (ie correct register and word choice used for contracts, marketing documents, instruction manuals etc) and the style (ie does it read naturally) and to pick up any last errors that have slipped through the net.
It isn't the evaluator's job to check for completeness, accuracy or anything else that can only be ascertained by referring to the original, apart from maybe checking complex formatting. This final evaluation can be done by someone who has no knowledge of the source language.
But it can't be done for £0.005 per word, at least not by someone living in the UK as the currency implies. ▲ Collapse
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RobinB
United States
Local time: 22:51
German to English
| Sounds like standard revision to me | Mar 30, 2010 |
"When revising the translation to focus on:
· Completeness – check that all text has been translated and the number of paragraphs/bullet points/headings etc.
· Comparing the source and target texts - ensure the source text has been translated accurately.
· Terminology – check that the correct terminology has been used and that any glossaries have been referred to, where appropriate.
· Factual Accuracy – check that any factual data in the Source has been correctly copied into the Target e.g.
o dates
o amounts/figures
o names
o places
· Readability – ensure that the document reads well in the target language;
· Grammar and Spelling – spelling and grammar should be checked and any mistakes / typos etc. should be rectified."
One of the problems in our industry is the plethora of terms used to describe the revision of a translation (often also referred to e.g. as "QA", "QC", or, in the US, "editing"), as opposed to "proofreading" (i.e. checking the final, typeset version of a document), which unfortunately is also frequently used as a synonym for "revision". All wildly confusing, and not improved by the new term that seems to have been coined.
What you describe looks to me like the straightforward, sometimes deeply depressing task of revising a translation, which should be remunerated by the hour on an "efforts/hours worked" basis - though I'm perfectly aware that many agencies think that it's just as much as low-grade commodity as the translations they buy...
[Edited at 2010-03-30 19:40 GMT]
| | | | pcovs
Denmark
Local time: 05:51
English to Danish
is another fancy way of putting it.
In my experience this is rarely a real final eye to be carried out AFTER the proofreading is over, although some agencies have clearly answered 'YES' when asked specifically.
So, be aware of what is actually asked, and don't just look at the wording this particular agency chose to 'reel in' unaware linguists to do twice the job at half the rate ;o)
| | | | | That is a real sweatshop rate | Mar 30, 2010 |
I'm with Nicole.
If I am expected to check everything as specified in Rad Graban's first posting, then I can only get through about 2000 words an hour, and less if I need to make a lot of changes. That means about £ 7 - 10 an hour, which I certainly would not accept.
A week or two ago I had a discussion with an agency that expected me to read 4000 - 5000 words an hour, without specifying how thoroughly, though the PM did say: ´As it is a new client, please make sure i... See more I'm with Nicole.
If I am expected to check everything as specified in Rad Graban's first posting, then I can only get through about 2000 words an hour, and less if I need to make a lot of changes. That means about £ 7 - 10 an hour, which I certainly would not accept.
A week or two ago I had a discussion with an agency that expected me to read 4000 - 5000 words an hour, without specifying how thoroughly, though the PM did say: ´As it is a new client, please make sure it is top quality.´
Luckily the translator had done a good job, but it took me at least four hours, not the two the agency originally reckoned to pay for, and in the end they paid for three. Their rates are at the lower end of my scale, but better than nothing if they pay for all the hours I work for them.
I have made a note that although I don´t mind translating for that agency, when we agree on the word count and rate per thousand words, I will not take on proofreading jobs for them again.
If the translator does a reasonable job, then a thorough proofreading/revision/QC check, call it what you like, by one competent linguist should be enough. This person can read the target first to check for meaning against the source - the one thing the translator cannot do - and it is always much easier to see someone else's typos than your own. (And/an, there/three form/from that the spelling checker doesn´t catch...)
Anything else is a waste of time IMHO.
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| | | | | I do it from time to time | Mar 30, 2010 |
In situations when client want's final opinion on already proofread translation, however I would never consider charging for such a service less than for normal proofreading - especially that it is used in situations when quality of the document is paramount and work requires extra care.
Cheers
Stanislaw
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Ines Burrell
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:51
Member (2004)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| I refuse to do them | Mar 30, 2010 |
I know which agency you are talking about and I just plain refuse to do these SLCs. First time I received a request like this I thought it was a mistake - I double checked with the PM and no, it was not a mistake. Which was even more surprising given that the translation rates are normal.
Strangely enough the client still keeps contacting me for these second linguist checks even though I have replied with detailed explanation for my refusal after each request. And every time they s... See more I know which agency you are talking about and I just plain refuse to do these SLCs. First time I received a request like this I thought it was a mistake - I double checked with the PM and no, it was not a mistake. Which was even more surprising given that the translation rates are normal.
Strangely enough the client still keeps contacting me for these second linguist checks even though I have replied with detailed explanation for my refusal after each request. And every time they seem surprised that I do not want to take these. The quality of translations I have seen would mean that I could only get through 1000 words an hour and at this rate I would be working for less than a national minimum wage!!!
Ines ▲ Collapse
| | | | Albert Stufkens
Netherlands
Local time: 05:51
Member (2008)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| PMs cannot be translators | May 5, 2010 |
For some time I have been working for a large American translation company that employs an army of PMs. I have been wondering what the requirements for a PM position are. A great variety of requests have meanwhile been made to me: from translating 4000 words deliverable the next day, proofreading at the rate of 2000 or more words per hour at Bangladeshi rates, irrespective of the complexity of the subject matter.
Now it dawns upon me that they cannot possibly be translators themselves cons... See more For some time I have been working for a large American translation company that employs an army of PMs. I have been wondering what the requirements for a PM position are. A great variety of requests have meanwhile been made to me: from translating 4000 words deliverable the next day, proofreading at the rate of 2000 or more words per hour at Bangladeshi rates, irrespective of the complexity of the subject matter.
Now it dawns upon me that they cannot possibly be translators themselves considering their often ridiculous expectations.
[quote]Burrell wrote:
I know which agency you are talking about and I just plain refuse to do these SLCs. First time I received a request like this I thought it was a mistake - I double checked with the PM and no, it was not a mistake. Which was even more surprising given that the translation rates are normal. ▲ Collapse
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