| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators Autor de la hebra: Enrique Cavalitto
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JL Baker wrote:
I have a simple straightforward question- if I want to opt out for now, how do I do that? I want the entire feedback symbol removed from my profile, please. A large part of my work is done with clients and agencies for whom I have signed confidentiality clauses, so I won't be using this option for now. And I would prefer not to have that symbol in my profile... or can someone tell me how to switch back to the old profile format?
Thanks-
Jennifer
[Edited at 2006-06-23 16:55]
[Edited at 2006-06-23 16:56]
[Edited at 2006-06-23 17:06]
that's why I will have to add a note explaining why the feedback feature is turned off if the feedback symbol is kept there. Very annoying.
Giovanni
[Edited at 2006-06-23 17:11]
| | | | | Another thought | Jun 23, 2006 |
I just want to explain my hesitance a bit more-
Let's imagine that a translator works in one or more highly technical fields, and let's imagine that some of this translators clients might be direct competitors in a highly competitive technological fields, and that the translator is translating manuals and technical data specs for patented sought after technologies. Obviously, this same idea can apply to finance, medicine, etc.
I'm not usually a nitpicker, but I would like to just r... See more I just want to explain my hesitance a bit more-
Let's imagine that a translator works in one or more highly technical fields, and let's imagine that some of this translators clients might be direct competitors in a highly competitive technological fields, and that the translator is translating manuals and technical data specs for patented sought after technologies. Obviously, this same idea can apply to finance, medicine, etc.
I'm not usually a nitpicker, but I would like to just remove the whole thing from my profile- at least until I can think it through a bit.
J. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sorry, but I really don't understand | Jun 23, 2006 |
I'll try to be concise.
I have accepted without no problem the WWA function and from my part I cannot see any sort of problem.
Most of us work under confidentiality agreements, but these agreements bind ourselves not to disclose information, issues and whatsoever pertain the issue we are translating or the final client. So I cannot see any confidentiality problem. Am I wrong?
From my part I have requested WWA feedbacks from my customers, without forcing any... See more I'll try to be concise.
I have accepted without no problem the WWA function and from my part I cannot see any sort of problem.
Most of us work under confidentiality agreements, but these agreements bind ourselves not to disclose information, issues and whatsoever pertain the issue we are translating or the final client. So I cannot see any confidentiality problem. Am I wrong?
From my part I have requested WWA feedbacks from my customers, without forcing anyone and two of them gave their feedback without no problems.
I can see this new feature as a sort of balancing between outsourcers and translators without any fear to break any confidentiality agreement. Well, I have some clients that don't want to be disclosed and I never disclose their name (of course).
From the other part, as we can leave a feedback for an outsourcer (positive or negative, no matter) why an outsourcer couldn't do the same?
The only thing that I feel strange is: our feedback to outsourcers have to be "filtered" before being published... Why on earth this solution hasn't been adopted also for translators?
Please, ProZ.com staff, do not go on protecting only outsourcers, (indecent rates, risky feedbacks, etc.) but think also to protect us from "indecent outsourcers".
Thank you
Claudio ▲ Collapse
| | | | | confidentiality | Jun 23, 2006 |
Is there going to be an option of keeping clients' names hidden like with PH?
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mediamatrix (X)
Local time: 04:21
español al inglés
+ ...
| Another 'Can of Worms' | Jun 23, 2006 |
The discussions so far in this thread have demonstrated two things:
a) That Proz.com is somewhat out of touch with some users' legitimate concerns over the portrayal of their services. I refer, of course, to the hiatus caused by labels implying 'This user has chosen to hide nasty comments from outsourcers', which is the topic of the majority of colleagues' posts here so far.
b) That Proz.com is able to respond responsibly and swiftly¨(although apparently not to everyo... See more The discussions so far in this thread have demonstrated two things:
a) That Proz.com is somewhat out of touch with some users' legitimate concerns over the portrayal of their services. I refer, of course, to the hiatus caused by labels implying 'This user has chosen to hide nasty comments from outsourcers', which is the topic of the majority of colleagues' posts here so far.
b) That Proz.com is able to respond responsibly and swiftly¨(although apparently not to everyone's entire satisfaction) to justified complaints about such shortcomings. On this point at least, Henry & Co. are clearly to be commended.
There is a further consideration, however, that seems to have escaped Henry's attention - and I wonder if his response will be equally responsible and decisive.
One of the new Proz.com features - the second item in Enrique's list - is: "Additional purpose: Private record-keeping". If I've understood Enrique's explanation correctly, this is intended as a private jotting-pad where outsourcers and agencies (many of whom are of course translators, too) can keep free-form information within the Proz system with the advantage of instant recall, for their eyes only, when browsing profiles. Enrique suggests that it is intended for keeping notes about translators they have previously worked with; it not clear in Enrique's blurb if it can be used also in relation to translators who they have 'not' previously worked with - or, indeed, as a place to hold information entirely unconnected to Proz users. It seems that there is no moderator control over the content.
In essence, then, the Proz.com database holds confidential third-party data about registered Proz users. This opens a proverbial can of worms. Most Proz users voluntarily provide a certain amount of 'positive' data about themselves - it's good for publicity and, after all, it's what we came here for. It works quite well: WE decide what goes on record, WE can check every day that it's not got corrupted, WE decide if we want to delete it, WE are in control. And if we want to publish nothing at all, that's no problem. Elsewhere in the system there are rules of conduct to prevent injury to users and there are moderators to sort out problems.
As a non-paying user I'm not privvy to the inner workings of the Blue Board, where I understand that some 'qualitative' information is available concerning outsourcers and agencies. But I understand that a 'subject' who feels agrieved can take steps to have improper information corrected or removed. That's fine by me - but it's a feature I personally would not want to use.
With the new outsourcers' jotting-pad, things are slightly different. Heck, no! not slightly - VERY DIFFERENT!
Proz.com will, in some cases (albeit, unknowingly) be storing unfavourable or even potentially libellous data about people who came here believing they had subscribed (or at least registered) to use a professional support tool having only their best interests in mind. As I understand it, the user constituting the 'subjet' of an outsourcer's jottings will not be notified of their existence and has no means to check their validity or, if appropriate, demand their deletion.
Under current legislation in many countries - including, I believe, the US, Germany and Argentina where Proz.com apparently carries out significant parts of its operations and business - any person has the right to demand a copy and eventual correction/deletion of data concerning them, held in any database. In many countries, all databases holding personal data must be registered; the registers usually state what kind of information is held, and for what purpose, and of course indicate who is legally responsible for the accuracy of the content. I have read the Proz.com 'Privacy Policy' ( http://www.proz.com/?sp=info/index&ssp=misc ) and I can find no mention there, or elsewhere on the Proz.com website, regarding the jurisdiction governing the collection and divulgation of personal data on this site; nor is there any reference to relevant legal instruments. All we have are some very bland statements regarding Proz.com's intentions in this area - statements so lacking in commitment as to be utterly worthless in law.
So, what happens if a Proz.com user wants to exercise his or her 'rights' here? Is Proz.com registered somewhere for this purpose? If so, in what country? And if a user demands a copy of 'his/her' data will Proz.com provide it? And will you include a copy of the 'confidential' third-party jottings entered by outsourcers?
We discovered a few weeks ago, when discussing Proz subscription rates in Euros and USD ( http://www.proz.com/topic/48437 ), a significant measure of, let's say, 'artistic licence' at play in Proz.com's administration. Alas, it would appear that the protection of privacy is being handled in a similarly dodgy manner.
So, let's ask Henry: "What information would you like to share with everyone here concerning the points raised above?"
Pending clarification of these issues, I suggest that outsourcers, agencies and users in general may want to avoid this new 'feature' like the plague.
MediaMatrix ▲ Collapse
| | | | | More "hide" buttons badly needed! | Jun 23, 2006 |
The ProZ.com profile has so many features that I think it is impossible to use them all at the same time. That's why I would really appreciate it if we could choose which of them we want to make visible to visitors. Things like This member has not received any feedback, No sample translations on file, Membership: N/A or the like really don't look good and are far from helpful in attracting potential customers. Also, they make the profile look cluttered (and I would really ... See more The ProZ.com profile has so many features that I think it is impossible to use them all at the same time. That's why I would really appreciate it if we could choose which of them we want to make visible to visitors. Things like This member has not received any feedback, No sample translations on file, Membership: N/A or the like really don't look good and are far from helpful in attracting potential customers. Also, they make the profile look cluttered (and I would really like to keep mine as simple as possible).
I (and many other members) have repeatedly mentioned this on the forums and a few days ago I even submitted a support ticket in which I asked for more "hide" buttons in the profile (so far we are only able to hide our KudoZ activity, BB, Project History and Conference Attended). Maybe this time I'll be lucky: Could we please have options to completely hide all empty profile fields?
Dear ProZ.com Staff, please, don't get me wrong. I appreciate all your work and I'm sure many members find many of the profile features extremely useful (I certainly do!). It's just that not everybody uses all of them and those who don't (me) would definitely prefer to hide them altogether instead of having an empty box, N/A or "this member chose not to use this feature" sign.
Thanks for your understanding,
Joanna
[Edited at 2006-06-23 17:47] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Questions for Viktor | Jun 23, 2006 |
Victor Dewsbery wrote:
Henry, you seem to assume that the "feedback" feature will be useful for ALL freelancers using the site, and that it is just a question of trying it out and seeing the benefits. And you seem to feel that there will be a misguided few who decline to use it (for reasons you fail to grasp).
Hi Viktor, thanks for joining in. You have misinterpreted my position. I believe that a feedback option in profiles is good for the community as a whole. This does not mean that I think it is good and useful for every single member of the community. I have heard several valid reasons for not using feedback, in this thread and in prior conversations. This is why there is the option not to show feedback.
Is the option to opt out of showing feedback enough to suit your unique situation? If not, can you explain why, and what else you require?
| | | | | There is vetting, Claudio | Jun 23, 2006 |
Claudio Nasso wrote:
The only thing that I feel strange is: our feedback to outsourcers have to be "filtered" before being published... Why on earth this solution hasn't been adopted also for translators?
Please, ProZ.com staff, do not go on protecting only outsourcers, (indecent rates, risky feedbacks, etc.) but think also to protect us from "indecent outsourcers".
Actually, it is the same in both directions. There is vetting.
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| Joanna has hit the nail on the head | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry wrote:
Is the option to opt out of showing feedback enough to suit your unique situation? If not, can you explain why, and what else you require?
Some of the points displayed in the visitor view of the new profile are not useful. I think Joanna's request for hide buttons would address the issues that have been debated here.
Specific points (looking at my own new profile).
1. The "More info > / Star / Feedback" box at the top right is not helpful, and as others have explained, it could prompt the question "Why has this person not received any feedback?".
Solution: an option to hide the whole box (i.e. to "opt out" of the whole feedback system).
2. "Portfolio: No sample translations on file". Again, a hide option would be much appreciated.
3. Translation education/credentials duplicate the same information. It would be useful to combine them (or hide one of them).
4. Account type: this is too prominent when placed at the top of the table. Perhaps this information could be rolled together with "Experience", which gives my ProZ registration/membership history. Or even more logically, "Experience" would be limited to free text, and would be followed by "ProZ membership" which would then give my ProZ status (aka "Account type") and my membership history.
As somebody else pointed out, the table of information in the new-style profile page is rather cluttered, and any steps to simplify it would be useful.
| | | | justin C
Estados Unidos
Local time: 04:21
inglés
| Cilian, I have made a change, you should now be able to enter a private record | Jun 23, 2006 |
Hi Cilian,
I tried it out a couple of times but only get the message "You do not appear to be authorized to access this page".
You should not get this message. I did change one setting that may have been causing this error to come up. Please try to enter your private record again.
Best Regards,
Justin
| | | | | To mediamatrix... | Jun 23, 2006 |
The private record-keeping is akin to a note from the poster to her/himself. In this sense, it is private to the poster and should not affect others.
| | | | | No: it is not enough | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry wrote:
Is the option to opt out of showing feedback enough to suit your unique situation? If not, can you explain why, and what else you require?
As several other people have already indicated: it is definitely not enough:
The feature should be opt in, not opt out, so as not to catch users unaware of the new feature;
More importantly, opting out of features such as feedback (and several others, such as the project tracking feature), is not enough if the feature itself remains displayed: "Feedback" with no feedback under it gives a viewer an impression: "this translator has no positive feedback, so he/she is hiding it", or maybe "this translator has not work experience: nobody is giving him/her feedback". It is very unlikely that the reaction to seeing an empty "feedback" field is going to be positive.
On the other hand, a profile without the feature is much more neutral.
As for the positive effects on the community as a whole: maybe, and maybe not - you may be concerned with the community, but we have to be concerned with how we want to present ourselves - as individuals - vis a vis our potential customers.
So, welcome to any new feature, so long as we, as individuals, may choose to customize it in a way that makes sense to us, up to and including, not displaying it at all (and definitely not displaying it but saying in effect "we have this feature, but this user has something to hide".
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| Thanks Justin, but still the same. | Jun 23, 2006 |
justin wrote:
I did change one setting that may have been causing this error to come up. Please try to enter your private record again.
I tried again and received the same message.
I just hope we're both talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the icon (looks like a small Excel table with an overlapping green plus-sign on the bottom right) to the right of the user's name at the top of the new profile format. First comes the photo, then the ribbon, then the user's name followed by this icon, and the following text appears when you move your cursor over it: "add to your service provider database".
No improvement, I'm afraid. Or is it only available to members with verified IDs (see support ticket #28009)?
Thanks,
C
| | | | | The box is required as a place to enter feedback | Jun 23, 2006 |
Riccardo Schiaffino wrote:
So, welcome to any new feature, so long as we, as individuals, may choose to customize it in a way that makes sense to us, up to and including, not displaying it at all (and definitely not displaying it but saying in effect "we have this feature, but this user has something to hide".
This is the balance issue I referred to earlier. As we have developed the system, you can opt out of showing feedback, but you can not opt out of receiving it. This gives the system integrity, without which it would have little value to anyone. Given that outsourcers will have the opportunity to enter feedback, there has to be a place for them to enter it. Hence the box.
As for the interpretation of an empty feedback box, an empty feedback box is just empty. It is not negative by nature.
| | | | Susana Galilea 
Estados Unidos
Local time: 03:21
inglés al español
+ ...
| I respectfully disagree | Jun 23, 2006 |
Henry wrote:
As for the interpretation of an empty feedback box, an empty feedback box is just empty. It is not negative by nature.
I agree with colleagues who see things otherwise. An empty feedback box (or any empty field, for that matter) contributes to clutter, which in itself is a negative thing. It might also send a red flag that the translator is too lazy/disorganized/inexperienced/etc. to take care of their profile properly. I fully agree with the need for more control over the fields we want to show/hide in our profile. Myself, I haven't changed over to the new format because I feel the amount of info is overkill. There are some great features, and every one of us is bound to have their preferences over which they'd like to take advantage of. As professionals, and paying members, having control over how our image is presented is paramount. You may be right, and an empty feedback box is just empty. Or not. I don't want to find the hard way that you are mistaken.
I appreciate the opportunity to express my view.
Susana
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