| صفحات الموضوع: < [1 2 3] > | Contests: Congratulations to winners in "A translator's life"! ناشر الموضوع: Ana Moirano
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Zea_Mays 
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Local time: 18:50
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I agree with you about the quality of the profile.
The bot entry presentation was done by Jared and he also said that he filled in the MT output in the contest entries.
I don't know if he also filled the bot's profile.
Honestly, I don't see a big problem with these gimmicks and their subpar profiles (since they are gimmicks, they can have bad profiles, why should they have good ones?). Having Chatty in KudoZ is quite worse.
As said, if MT is better than human translation ... See more I agree with you about the quality of the profile.
The bot entry presentation was done by Jared and he also said that he filled in the MT output in the contest entries.
I don't know if he also filled the bot's profile.
Honestly, I don't see a big problem with these gimmicks and their subpar profiles (since they are gimmicks, they can have bad profiles, why should they have good ones?). Having Chatty in KudoZ is quite worse.
As said, if MT is better than human translation in some cases, maybe that says something about the quality of translation some of us provide, doesn't it? In all of Proz's contests you'll see entries where you wonder how on earth the entrant can call themselves a "translator". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Barbara Carrara
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
عضو (2008)
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Zea_Mays wrote:
The bot entry presentation was done by Jared and he also said that he filled in the MT output in the contest entries.
How do you know that? Did Jared explicitly say so? Where?
Honestly, I don't see a big problem with these gimmicks and their subpar profiles (since they are gimmicks, they can have bad profiles, why should they have good ones?).
Don't you find 'its' chosen wording infuriating, and 'its' sarcasm uncalled for?
Having Chatty in KudoZ is quite worse.
Well THAT is definitely infuriating. However, I cannot find any KudoZ page for the 'GoTrans' bot, but only its many contest translations out of and into many language pairs, included in its hundred-pair rich list...
I'd very much like to read reviews from colleagues working in any of those pairs... And from Jared.
| | | | Zea_Mays
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
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Barbara Carrara wrote:
Zea_Mays wrote:
The bot entry presentation was done by Jared and he also said that he filled in the MT output in the contest entries.
How do you know that? Did Jared explicitly say so? Where?
During the 2023 Translation Day event (the recording is available, I think for plus subscribers, you'll find the link in one of my previous posts).
The bot has no KudoZ history: https://www.proz.com/profile/1127212?show_mode=kudoz
(just replace your profile number in your own KudoZ history with the number of another user, and you'll get there)
[Bearbeitet am 2023-10-16 11:07 GMT]
| | | | | @ Zea_Mays: So, if I understand correctly.... | Oct 16, 2023 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
Likes/dislikes do not count for ranking.
IMO, likes/dislikes can be quite misleading as often they are very subjective.
At least a third, "orange" tag would be required for preferential notes here.
Let's take as an example Italian-German where there were 3 entries, including yours. The other two entries have got 21 dislikes each one and yours none. I agree that likes are subjective, but as far as mistranslations or grammar/spelling mistakes (= dislikes) are concerned, there is little or no room at all for subjectivity. So, if one or both other entries had got more points than yours, it would no longer have appeared as the best one, would it? Here, I am really flabbergasted! I mean, voting is very time consuming, so why would anyone vote and provide comments and possibly links and spend all this time, if it's true that likes/dislikes do not count for ranking? I can tell after only a few sentences, and without checking word by word, whether I feel a translation is good/better than others and whether I "like" or "dislike" it, which would be indeed very subjective, though! And it's just a matter of minutes!
Thank you for having enlightened me.
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Lingua 5B
البوسنة والهرسك
Local time: 18:50
عضو (2009)
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| Everything is subjective | Oct 16, 2023 |
In case of a contestant also being a voter, everything is subjective even more.
Of course likes/dislikes don't count, especially dislikes, if they come from other contestants. It's a pure conflict of interest, no rocket science.
IMO, contestants should be banned from voting.
I once skimmed the situation in my language pair, and I saw a heap of dislikes and very few likes anywhere, mostly none of course. It was pretty clear who the voters were, their compet... See more In case of a contestant also being a voter, everything is subjective even more.
Of course likes/dislikes don't count, especially dislikes, if they come from other contestants. It's a pure conflict of interest, no rocket science.
IMO, contestants should be banned from voting.
I once skimmed the situation in my language pair, and I saw a heap of dislikes and very few likes anywhere, mostly none of course. It was pretty clear who the voters were, their competitors. I have never participated in a contest, but it's easy to spot the culture and what's going on there if you just briefly visit the contest page.
There should be a standardized and clear voting criteria sheet against which this should be rated. This sheet should not be shown to participants, as they will find a way to abuse anything/everything and game the system.
[Edited at 2023-10-16 13:09 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Zea_Mays
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
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| likes/dislikes do not matter | Oct 16, 2023 |
Christel Zipfel wrote:
Let's take as an example Italian-German where there were 3 entries, including yours. The other two entries have got 21 dislikes each one and yours none. I agree that likes are subjective, but as far as mistranslations or grammar/spelling mistakes (= dislikes) are concerned, there is little or no room at all for subjectivity. So, if one or both other entries had got more points than yours, it would no longer have appeared as the best one, would it?
Yes. If one of them had managed to find let's say 5 fellow translators to vote for their entry with highest vote (mine was voted by 4), it would appear as the best one.
| | | | Zea_Mays
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
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Barbara Carrara wrote:
(I can only see) its many contest translations out of and into many language pairs, included in its hundred-pair rich list...
Where do you see them?
| | | | Barbara Carrara
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
عضو (2008)
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| GoTrans translation contest entries | Oct 16, 2023 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
Where do you see them?
Whilst searching online for the missing bot KudoZ history, I stumbled upon a list of old ProZ translation contest entries uploaded (by whom, on the bot behalf?) over the years.
If you google "proz GoTrans translation contest entries", 18 of them come up in the first couple of pages, from different years and in a number of language pairs.
For the record, I did not open any of them.
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Zea_Mays
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
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Lingua 5B wrote:
In case of a contestant also being a voter, everything is subjective even more.
Of course likes/dislikes don't count, especially dislikes, if they come from other contestants. It's a pure conflict of interest, no rocket science.
Dislikes, whether they come from a contestant or not, are incontestable as long as they refer to grammar/syntax/spelling errors, which are always documentable, and hence not subjective at all. Therefore they can absolutey not be ignored.
| | | | Lingua 5B
البوسنة والهرسك
Local time: 18:50
عضو (2009)
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Christel Zipfel wrote:
Lingua 5B wrote:
In case of a contestant also being a voter, everything is subjective even more.
Of course likes/dislikes don't count, especially dislikes, if they come from other contestants. It's a pure conflict of interest, no rocket science.
Dislikes, whether they come from a contestant or not, are incontestable as long as they refer to grammar/syntax/spelling errors, which are always documentable, and hence not subjective at all. Therefore they can absolutey not be ignored.
Can you find me another contest in anything in the world where contestant is also a voter? That's exactly the problem. The voting criteria is chaotic and lacks structure, where a spelling error has the same weight as a semantic error, for instance.
[Edited at 2023-10-16 20:27 GMT]
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So, let's summarise the situation: the translators who are submitting entries to the translation contest each year are feeding GoTrans by giving it the chance to get better and better. Machiavellian or what?
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Zea_Mays
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
So, let's summarise the situation: the translators who are submitting entries to the translation contest each year are feeding GoTrans by giving it the chance to get better and better. Machiavellian or what?
GoTrans "delivered" unedited DeepL output until the forelast contest. In the latest contest the unedited output was taken from ChatGPT.
So I think these AI features do not profit from the contest. GoTrans only shows the improvement of MT over the years.
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Lingua 5B wrote:
Can you find me another contest in anything in the world where contestant is also a voter? That's exactly the problem. The voting criteria is chaotic and lacks structure, where a spelling error has the same weight as a semantic error, for instance.
I didn't say it is ok that contestants can also vote, but I disagree with your affirmation that behind their dislikes, as far as "documentable" mistakes are concerned, there is necessarily some personal interest, as those dislikes cannot be considered "subjective".
| | | | Zea_Mays
إيطاليا
Local time: 18:50
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| Why agrees & disagrees cannot be counted in | Oct 19, 2023 |
Christel Zipfel wrote:
I didn't say it is ok that contestants can also vote, but I disagree with your affirmation that behind their dislikes, as far as "documentable" mistakes are concerned, there is necessarily some personal interest, as those dislikes cannot be considered "subjective".
Regarding errors, disagreements are not subjective, I agree.
I have noticed that often multiple people tag the same item multiple times,
instead of agreeing with who had already tagged the same item.
This makes an entry look full of red tags and therefore really wrong to the eye, while this is not always the case.
This can be misleading.
I have also counted several cases where disagrees are really subjective or even wrong,
not only on my own translations.
It wouldn't be fair counting these in without vetting. And all disagrees to a disagree would have to be subtracted.
Agrees can also be very subjective, and people are much more stingy with them. Also here, disagrees would have to be subtracted.
As said, I'd suggest to have at least a third tag: orange for preferential comments.
And I would be in favour of the system recognising that a term has already been tagged,
and giving you just the option to agree or disagree and comment.
Another issue may be the use of mobile devices.
I already find it difficult and cumbersome to read and rate all entries on a desktop, but how will it be when done on a smartphone?
The more entries there are, the harder this is, and the more a fair chance may be lacking.
[Bearbeitet am 2023-10-19 09:51 GMT]
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